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View Full Version : Bruynzeel = Giaconda??


JustinM
07-03-2014, 08:08 PM
Question:

Does any one know if the Bruynzeel pastel pencils are actually made by the same people as the Gioconda Pastel pencils?

I know Bruynzeel is from holland, but they make some of their products in Asia (and are now in fact a merged company with Sakura).

Koh-i-Noor, meanwhile is a czech company that makes the Giaconda pastel pencil.

Both are marketed completely separately and come in very different packaging but I cant help but see huge similarities between the two. they handle the same, they feel the same - even the finish on the wood itself is extremely similar.


Does anyone know if there is a connection? Or am inhaling too much pastel dust?:lol: :lol: :lol:

Kosmon
07-11-2016, 04:48 PM
This turned out to be an interesting question.

I don't know if there's a production connection, but I can confirm that those two 48-pencil sets march together in lockstep as far as the color selection goes.

(I also agree that they feel and handle very much alike. I don't use either set very much - I like to wetbrush pastel pencil sketches, and only Derwents give me results I like.)

Out of curiosity I laid both sets out in a line (yellow-orange-red-violet-blue-green-earth-grey), and found it possible to pair them up nearly exactly from white to black.

Here's the list of corresponding pairs I ended up with:

Kohinoor Gioconda ------------ Bruynzeel-Sakura

1 Zinc White ------------ 1 White
13 Zinc Yellow ------------ 21 Light Lemon Yellow
36 Lemon Yellow ------------ 25 Lemon Yellow
2 Chrome Yellow ------------ 19 Naples Yellow
21 Naples Yellow ------------ 22 Deep Yellow
40 Dark Orange ------------ 18 Permanent Orange
20 Light Vermillion ------------ 46 Sanguine
47 Vermillion Red ------------ 23 Orange
4 Old Rose ------------ 31 Vermillion
5 Carmine ------------ 38 Carmine
32 Carmine Madder ------------ 39 Magenta
15 Light Violet ------------ 36 Dark Rose
6 Violet ------------ 93 Light Blue Violet
34 Violet Red ------------ 57 Blue Violet
19 Bluish Violet ------------ 53 Violet
27 Ice Blue ------------ 51 Light Blue
41 Light Ultramarine ------------ 14 Smyrna Blue
42 Dark Ultramarine ------------ 54 Cerulean Blue
48 Cobalt Blue ------------ 77 Light Ultramarine
10 Ultramarine Medium ------------ 50 Ultramarine
26 Berlin Blue ------------ 52 Turquoise Blue
9 Azure Blue ------------ 55 Cobalt Blue
18 Paris Blue ------------ 58 Prussian Blue
37 Grass Green ------------ 76 Emerald Green
38 Chromium Oxide Green ------------ 67 Green Blue
31 Hookers Green ------------ 69 Leaf Green
7 Permanent Green Light ------------ 60 Light Green
16 Chromium Oxide Bright ------------ 66 Green
8 Permanent Green Dark ------------ 62 Dark Leaf Green
24 Olive Green ------------ 96 Sap Green
39 Olive Green Light ------------ 29 Yellow Brown
22 Light Orange ------------ 16 Mid Orange
28 Flesh ------------ 75 Light Flesh
14 Light Ochre ------------ 47 Raw Sienna
3 Gold Ochre ------------ 27 Yellow Ochre
46 Sienna Natural ------------ 48 Brown Ochre
51 English Red ------------ 24 Burnt Sienna
52 Sienna ------------ 41 Light Brown
23 Indian Red ------------ 42 Sienna
30 Caput Mortuum Dark ------------ 43 Dark Brown
45 Roedeer Brown ------------ 45 Havana Brown
11 Caput Mortuum Light ------------ 44 Mid Brown

(plus 3 greys and a black in both sets)

The pencils themselves have only numbers printed on them. Please note that I paired them off by the actual color of their leads before I looked up the color names on the official color charts - the names had no effect on how I initially matched them up.

So odd couples like Gioconda #34 Violet Red and Bruynzeel #57 Blue Violet are a pair not just because they were in the same position in their respective lines, but because the color of the pastel in both pencils is the same.

And some of the names are very strange indeed compared to the actual pencil color - the Bruynzeel #26 Sanguine, for example, really is a kind of bright vermilion/scarlet red, not the sanguine we're familiar with from conte sticks.

The Gioconda #14 Light Ochre is underlined because it turns out my box of Giocondas has two #21 Naples Yellows and no Light Ochre in it. That Naples Yellow is actually a pretty fair match for the Bruynzeel #47 Raw Sienna too, so those two Giocondas could switch mates if I ever got a look at the Light Ocher.

(apologies for the poor formatting of the list above!)

Kos

water girl
07-11-2016, 07:35 PM
Thank you, that is very interesting. :thumbsup:

JustinM
08-08-2016, 08:15 PM
Wow thanks Kos. I appreciate you taking the time to do this. I agree, since my initial post Ive been using both a lot more & really found them almost completely interchangeable.

I like both sets because they are one of the only brands that I can sharpen flawlessly with an electric pencil sharpener.

Appreciate your input. I suspect the story behind it is something like they worked together but then branched out/split ways or maybe their master colour mixer went from one company to the other. Either way, they are remarkably similar in just about every way.

ManedWolf
08-18-2016, 03:06 PM
Kosmon posted the question in the colour pencil forum:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1409765

I have almost 30 years experience of colour pencils (not including my school years) and so the question about possible relationship between Koh-i-noor Hardtmuth Gioconda and Bruynzeel Design Pastels may get an answer.

I took a look at a Bruyneel Design pamphlet I downloaded some years ago, and because I can't find it in the web anymore (B'zeel seems to play hide-and-seek with its colour charts and further info) I paste a screen grab of it:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Aug-2016/151084-BzeelDesign.jpg

It reveals that the Pastel range does not equal the Colour and Aquarel ranges.

And looking closely at the K-i-nHGioconda set ...

https://cdn.modulor.de/products/kavj/3_1920_1440_pastellkreidestift_gioconda_soft_pastel_pencils.jpg

... we see that it does not match the other K-i-nHs, like this Polycolor set: http://img15.deviantart.net/d05e/i/2012/052/8/c/color_chart_koh_i_noor_polycolor_by_jankov-d4qej5q.jpg (some reds, pinks and violets have since been discontinued and replaced by new and supposedly better - the new colours have three-digit numbers 1xx.)

So it does look possible that the B'zeel Design Pastels are not made in China but by K-i-nH in the Czech Republic.

I admit I haven't seen the current B'zeel Designs but it seems that the hues match those of B'zeel's less expensive sets rather than Koh-i-noor Hardtmuths.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Aug-2016/151084-PAW.JPG
Heikki