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Eraethil
04-22-2014, 06:20 PM
I try not to make too many value-based assumptions when I view art, but it's just not possible to be completely objective, is it? I was surfing youtube today and stumbled upon too many fine art clichés.

For example, I've done my share of work with poured and dribbled paint, and I have much respect for artists that are able to do it really well. After all, I've discovered first hand how easy it is to create really poorly composed paintings that way. And now poured paint has become another of those youtube painting clichés. It is hard enough for people to relate to abstract art, without the thought that ANYONE can buy a few bottles of liquid acrylic, pour it randomly on a canvas and tilt it back and forth a little bit to create a FABULOUS work of art. Ok, the short rant is over...

Now, what it got me to thinking is that there must be a bunch of really good artists out there redeeming these media that have been reduced to cliché.

So, do any of you know of fine artists that do truly amazing work using a medium or style that has become a cliché? Or that has become a DIY home decor favourite? Or is a bygone kids craft favourite? I'm thinking there have to be artists that have broken the clichés by being really original and thoughtful in how they have used their much-maligned medium.

Examples of media or styles that might need some redemption:
- poured paint
- black velvet supports
- Bob Ross' style
- Jackson Pollock's style
- doodling/zentangling
- spin art
- modge podge collage
- paper tole
- macrame
- leaf collage
- spray paint art
- sea shell assemblage

Anyone know of a cliché redeemer? Please post links if you can find any!

Eraethil
04-22-2014, 06:32 PM
Jackson Pollock has been much maligned over the years with phrases like "Jack the Dripper" and many many people have created work of a WIDE variety of quality in his style, finding out in the process just how hard it is to create something compelling.

So here is the first redeemer that came to mind for me: Alistair Rance (http://www.alistairrance.com/paintings/12/EVERETT-Series-2012.html) is a Canadian artist who recently completed his BFA at the Okanagan campus of the University of British Columbia.

What do you think? Does his work seem like a serious and successful take on dripped paint techniques?

Darisc
04-22-2014, 07:12 PM
Jackson Pollock...What do you think? Does his work seem like a serious and successful take on dripped paint techniques?
There's a distinction to be made between the avant garde and the academic.

Pollock arrived at his process in an organic manner that fit into the context of painting at the time - Pollock was the creative innovator, he created the "dripped paint technique" ('though "technique" and ""craft" were hardly a concern in his struggle).

Pollock was avant garde and is historically recognized as such, having gone "outside the box" or having "pushed the envelope", in today's vernacular. Those who emulate him today are academics, in the most boring and banal sense of that term.

In three words which apply to much artwork touted as "creative", "it's been done", followed by a big yawn. :)

Eraethil
04-22-2014, 08:28 PM
I think I see where you are going, though by these definitions, pretty much everything in painting has been done, which would make almost all of our work as painters a big yawn.

Surely there are other painters out there that you guys find redeeming to one of those "yawn" styles, techniques, or media.

Darisc
04-22-2014, 10:03 PM
...Surely there are other painters out there that you guys find redeeming to one of those "yawn" styles, techniques, or media.

Redeeming? As in "to make (something that is bad, unpleasant, etc.) better or more acceptable..."? Not clear what you're asking.

Eraethil
04-22-2014, 10:33 PM
Redeeming, as in to re-elevate something that has previously been reduced to cliché to an exciting or inspiring level again.

For example, I don't know of any artists currently working on black velvet, probably because it was such a popular fad in the '70's. Perhaps there is someone today creating work on black velvet that impresses you...

ChristyQ
04-22-2014, 10:36 PM
I'd like to see a modge podge collage redeemer if anyone knows of one off hand. I can't think of any collage art that doesn't look like a high school kid made it to decorate their room.

davefriend
04-22-2014, 11:14 PM
... pretty much everything in painting has been done...Reminds me of something my son said to me when he was about 16. As I remember, it was "Dad I don't think I need to learn any more ...I think I know about everything I will need in life"

Priceless moment. I have stored the 15 year old disclosure in my memory and have been waiting for the right time to remind my 31 year old son of his teenage wisdom.

Darisc
04-23-2014, 12:15 AM
Redeeming, as in to re-elevate something that has previously been reduced to cliché to an exciting or inspiring level again.
Artists of historical importance made their marks and have a "vertical audience" that grows in numbers over the years. Some who emulate them may become very successful and sell many works of art, however, their audience will almost certainly not be vertical and grow larger over time, but rather, horizontal, having a very large but temporal audience that fades away.

"Artists" who emulate them are academic and are more "craftspeople" than "artists", which should not be taken disparagingly; most who engage in art as a hobby are as, or more, concerned over learning the craft of their chosen media than expressing original visual concepts.

Again, nothing disparaging in that; I have as much admiration for a painter who studies the craft of watercolor painting with the goal of painting superbly realistic wildlife as I have for a painter who casts about, experimenting with acrylic, oil, watercolor, collage, etc. with the goal of expressing their personal vision, whether it be abstract or objective.

One could pick up from where Rembrandt, or Cezanne, or...left off and end up producing work of historical significance, but that wouldn't really be re-elevating what's already been done.

For example, I don't know of any artists currently working on black velvet, probably because it was such a popular fad in the '70's. Perhaps there is someone today creating work on black velvet that impresses you...

Popular fad in the '70's...makes my point re horizontal audience, eh?

Incidentally, one can still purchase magnificent portraits of Elvis and heroic depictions of fighting bulls painted on black velvet as rich as Ricardo Montalban's "rreeech Corinthian leather" less than 100 mi. South of me in Tijuana. :D

I realize that what I wrote above is also a basis for a whole 'nother discussion on art as distinguished from craft. :wave:

Eraethil
04-23-2014, 01:28 AM
At least quote me in context Dave. ;) By the definitions Darisc provides, pretty much everything in painting has been done. If no one can drip paint without being derivative to Jackson Pollock's body of work, then what is left to do? I don't accept that, and am surprised any artist would. But all of this rhetoric is just a distraction to the intent of the original post.

Doesn't ANYONE have good examples of artists that are redeeming approaches that have been viewed as clichés? Or is my original post just too optimistic for anyone to care about?

Darisc
04-23-2014, 02:08 AM
...By the definitions Darisc provides, pretty much everything in painting has been done...
What definitions? I wrote: "In three words which apply to much artwork touted as "creative", "it's been done", followed by a big yawn" which is not at all saying that pretty much everything in painting has been done...(I ain't finished yet :D ).

Yet another discussion would be defining "creative". Food for thought; Al Hirt and Miles Davis were both fantastic horn players. Al Hirt was technically awesome, Miles Davis was awesomely creative, the former a master of his craft, the latter a creative genius.

Oh, oh, oh!! Inspiration just whacked me in the forehead! Homage to Malevich - a black square on black velvet! :wave:

Ishka Baha
04-23-2014, 03:21 AM
I'd like to see a modge podge collage redeemer if anyone knows of one off hand. I can't think of any collage art that doesn't look like a high school kid made it to decorate their room.

I'd like to see a modge podge collage redeemer if anyone knows of one off hand. I can't think of any collage art that doesn't look like a high school kid made it to decorate their room.

Great thread Rick.

I thought that too Christy until I found this in the paper. It is now on my fridge. Who did it? I don't know but it is a testament to collage art which can be done with a wow. And there is another collage painting that was posted on this site a while back by PiKoon Mo called Impregnation of a Whim which was not totally collage but a mix which shows collage can be done beautifully if it is in the right hands.


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Apr-2014/1394506-john_lennon_collage.jpg

PiKoonMo
04-23-2014, 02:39 PM
Re: In search of redemption.
I'd like to see a modge podge collage redeemer if anyone knows of one off hand. I can't think of any collage art that doesn't look like a high school kid made it to decorate their room.

romare bearden was a collagist. an brillant artist. amazing,amazing stuff. the problem with alot of collages is they are too literal and/or the collage elements in a particular work dont jibe with the non-collage elements. there must be an accord with the texture of the collage pieces and the surface plane. in most bad collage the collage piece sticks out like a sore thumb instead of complimenting and enhancing the overall work.

Eraethil
04-23-2014, 02:58 PM
Ian Wright (http://vi.sualize.us/link/?rid=MjFiODY0OGNkYjVjZTZiYmJmYWI0M2I3MjZmMzFhNzk~&rel=eyJwZXJwYWdlIjoxMiwiZXhjbHVkZSI6WyI3MjA5NDkiXSwiY3VycmVudHVzZXJpZCI6bnVsbCwibnNmd2ltYWdlcyI6ZmFsc2UsIm1vZGVyYXRlZGltYWdlcyI6ZmFsc2UsImJNZWRpYSI6IjAiLCJ0YWdzIjpbImFydCIsImlsbHVzdHJhdGlvbiIsImNyZWF0aXZlIiwiY29sbGFnZSIsImlhbiB3cmlnaHQiLCJpYW52ZW5zIiwicGFwZXIgdHJhaWwiLCJjdXQiLCJwYXBlciIsInBvcnRyYWl0Il19&url=aHR0cDovL3d3dy5tcmlhbndyaWdodC5jby51ay9ULUktUGFwZXItVHJhaWw~) did that collage. Excellent example, thanks Ishaka Baha!

Eraethil
04-23-2014, 08:57 PM
Thanks Adrian! Romare Bearden (https://www.google.ca/search?q=romare+bearden&rlz=1C1GPCK_enCA430CA430&es_sm=122&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=FGBYU7XBE8WdyQHR4oGgBQ&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1067&bih=517#q=romare%20bearden%20collage&revid=2101501454&tbm=isch) created some very cool work and I like that he used magazine paper to incorporate current affairs/issues into his work. I had not heard of him.

Eraethil
04-23-2014, 08:58 PM
Thanks Adrian! Romare Bearden (https://www.google.ca/search?q=romare+bearden&rlz=1C1GPCK_enCA430CA430&es_sm=122&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=FGBYU7XBE8WdyQHR4oGgBQ&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1067&bih=517#q=romare%20bearden%20collage&revid=2101501454&tbm=isch) was not known to me. I like that he used magazine paper to incorporate current issues in his work!

fiddleplayer
04-24-2014, 03:18 AM
I just discovered Mel Bochner, whose "Blah Blah Blah" paintings are oil on black velvet. They used one of his paintings for the cover of Art in America last month. Here is a Google image search on his Blah Blah Blah paintings: http://tinyurl.com/mqr3kdj. This guy really got my attention, but I'd never heard of him before.

I have to say, however, black velvet? Seriously?

Ishka Baha
04-24-2014, 04:04 AM
Not quite sea shell assemblage but sand art. I saw this recently at a museum and don't ask me why I ended up staring at it for ages when there was a room full of colour but perhaps that is why. It was so delicate. Andre Masson.....Star, Winged Being, Fish.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Apr-2014/1394506-andre_Masson_star_winged_being_fish.jpg

Eraethil
04-24-2014, 04:27 PM
I have to say, however, black velvet? Seriously?

Hehehe. Perhaps using black velvet in this case was part of the narrative the artist intended. I wonder if the series is saying something about art. Perhaps black velvet is his ultimate blah? If so, then yes, seriously.

Thanks for posting this, I found the artists images thought provoking.

Eraethil
04-24-2014, 04:32 PM
Not quite sea shell assemblage but sand art. I saw this recently at a museum and don't ask me why I ended up staring at it for ages when there was a room full of colour but perhaps that is why.

On first glance, it doesn't do much for me, but textured work often falls flat in photos. Was it in a group or collection show or was it among a grouping of the artist's work in the same medium?

Ishka Baha
04-24-2014, 04:47 PM
It was in the Tate Modern amongst Picasso's, Dali's etc. It falls flat on its face as a photo. And I nearly walked past it but then it's simplicity drew my eye in. The sand is much darker than shown in this painting and the paint more vibrant.

Katie Black
04-24-2014, 05:50 PM
I thought you might enjoy looking at this Russian artists work, Elena Nosyreva, its a mix of collage and photos, and I think she just does it brilliantly!

http://fineartamerica.com/featured/tenement-dreams-elena-nosyreva.html

Eraethil
04-25-2014, 06:14 AM
Katie, I think I found some of her work (http://fineartamerica.com/profiles/elena-nosyreva.html?tab=artworkgalleries&artworkgalleryid=129887) that greggo might really enjoy too. Thanks!

I really enjoy this one (http://elena-nosyreva.artistwebsites.com/featured/city-poetry-elena-nosyreva.html).

Eraethil
04-25-2014, 11:04 AM
Andre Masson.....Star, Winged Being, Fish.

Quite fascinating to read about the process at the Tate's site. Thanks!

trufflecat
04-27-2014, 03:06 PM
Thanks for the thought-provoking post, Rick. My thoughts are still provoking themselves through this one....