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diphascon
06-28-2001, 11:42 AM
Sorry to stumble in here a bit unprepared, and maybe this was discussed in extenso before in this forum but:

what are your likes and dislikes concerning acrylic brands and why?

(myself, I could get some Rowney System3 for just a few bucks, but it looks like I'm not too happy with them. They are a bit fluid and not very good coverers. They may be great for aquarell when diluted with water, though. As I have 250ml-bottles, I should probably do some large-scale paintings just to have a chance to get rid of them :p ).

cheers

martin adler

VictoriaS
06-28-2001, 12:47 PM
I like Golden Heavy Body and Liquitex High Viscosity acrylics; haven't tried Winsor & Newton Finity, but I've heard they're good, too. I have two or three tubes of Pebeo, but I'm not thrilled because it bothers me that the simple earth colors are blends of three or four different pigments. Burnt sienna, for example. (I don't have access to my paints at the moment, so I can't check what all they put in it.)

ivan1
06-28-2001, 06:46 PM
I have used Finity and Golden Heavy Body, plus one tube of Liquitex. I like Golden better than Finity as I feel they are a little thicker to work with. Also, I was told by the art store people that Finity paints have additives in order to maintain a consistent sheen with all colors when dry. Hence he does not supply Finity acrylics any more, just their Galeria line. Aparently Golden paints have as much pigment in them as possible, and different colors dry to differents sheens. A new Canadian brand which I have not tried calledd Triart is trying to compete with Golden, and are supposed to be very good at a slightly better price. I have not tried these yet. Is this all true or just sales talk? I don't know.I have yet to find any acrylics to have the same thickness as Winton oils which I really like. I have tried Liquitex Heavy Gloss Gel but not very happy with it. I have purchased some Golden Extra heavy glosss gel to try on holiday next week. It appears to be very thick in the jar.
I have decided go with Golden Heavy Body paints for a while and give them a good long evaluation.

Leaflin
06-28-2001, 07:30 PM
Golden Heavy Body.
You can write, phone or email them and ask for their colour charts which are actual samples. They have one for Heavy Body Arcrylics, Fluid Acrylics, Garnet gels, Iridescent Colours, and Air Brush.

www.goldenpaints.com

espax
06-28-2001, 11:35 PM
Liquitex and Golden are obvious standards and I use their artist colors often.

Chromacolour paints are great, I would use them almost exclusively if they were readily available ... but you must order them from direct, (see http://www.chromacolour.com), where I could have a jar of Liquitex or Golden with a five minute drive.

They are about US$5 per 50 ml tube. Not too bad, and they paint with great economy because of a high pigment load.

But be prepared to wait a few weeks if you order.

Bruce Newman
06-29-2001, 08:32 AM
I've only been painting for a year and still have my original tubes of paint. Nearly all are Grumbacher Finest. I keep seeing references to Liquitex and Golden and I wonder if anyone can compare Grumbacher Finest to these. My experience isso limited and I would like to know where Grumbacher Finest fits in the grand scheme of things.

Thanks,

Bruce

sarkana
06-29-2001, 09:12 AM
i'd like to jump on the golden bandwagon and say that they are the second best acrylics i have ever used. before i started making my own i used them almost exclusively. its a great company, too, and you can feel good about patronising them.

but i have to say my alltime favorite is lascaux. they are so buttery smooth and a pure joy to work with. even in the furthest regions of the colorspace, where the sheen of even golden acrylics looks dead, the lascaux paints look beautiful and enticing.

i now make my own, very reasonable brand of acrylics. they are not heavy body at all, infact, they are formulated to flow and be more liquid like golden fluid acrylics. i made them that way because that's how i like to work. not like butter at all, more like heavy cream.

and i'd love to know why you all seem to prefer the heavy bodied paints. what advantage does that give you? what techniques does the heavy body enable?

VictoriaS
06-29-2001, 12:25 PM
I checked the Pebeo. Their RAW sienna is made of BURNT sienna, Mars Yellow, Mars Red, and Mars Black. WHY???? Their burnt sienna is the same recipe, except contains no burnt sienna (just kidding -- it actually is the same except without the Mars Yellow).

Sarkana: I haven't used liquid acrylics. But I figure you can get textures with the thicker stuff that you can't get with the liquids. Can you do impasto with liquid?

Victoria

Patrick1
06-29-2001, 11:06 PM
From the acrylics I've tried, the best is Liquitex High Viscosity (in tubes). It is the thickest and has the most intense colors out of the acrylics I've tried so far. And it has a nice
non-gluey, soft, buttery feel.

I have a few Liquitex Basics colors (also tubes) and they are about medium thickness and the colors not particularily intense. Despite being the student grade/economy line, I find them overpriced for their quality, but they are still decent paints.

I have a tube of Golden burnt sienna. It doesn't say high viscosity on it, so I don't know if it is. I keep hearing that Golden makes just about the best mass-produced acrylics, but the one tube I have, burnt sienna, is only slightly above average thickness. I hope this isn't their 'high viscosity' because it's noticably less thick than Liquitex High Viscosity. It doesn't seem special. But I will try pure hues to judge their chroma.

I haven't yet tried Grumbacher Academy or Finest (I'd love to, but Grumbacher Acrylics are not easy to find in Canada). From my experience with Grumbacher, I'd expect their Finest acrylics to be as good as any.

Ivan 1, I have two tubes of Tri Art High Viscosity tube acrylics (quinacridone magenta PR 122 and phthalo blue GS PB 15:3). I was told Tri Art is made in Kingston, Ontario. They are indeed good. And thick. They are thicker than the one tube of Golden I have, and are almost as thick as Liquitex High Viscosity. In fact, maybe even as thick (judging by the two colors I have). But they don't have the buttery feel of Liquitex High Viscosity. They also cost a bit less, but they still aren't cheap. Like Golden, their tubes are marked with an actual color sample of that color (this is VERY useful to me). Their packaging has a cheap, generic look to it, but who cares. Tri some. I think you'll like it.

Tri Art also makes Wallack's house brand of paint (think this is only available in Ontario). They are less expensive than Tri Art High Viscosity, but not as nice.

Patrick

Einion
07-01-2001, 03:20 PM
Hi Martin, I have used Winsor & Newton artistsí acrylics for over two decades (long before they were called Finity) and have rarely had a tube where the quality was anything other than top-notch. Because I paint in a very thin manner I have tried other brands just for experimentsí sake but I still think Winsor & Newtonís are the best I have used.

I have tried Talens quite extensively in the past, Rowney, Liquitex and most recently Brera from Maimeri (and Italian firm). Oh, and one tube of Dick Blick for a bright shade of Red Oxide I couldnít find from anyone else!

The Rowney paints (Flow Formula and the other type) I have used I would have to say were not as well made as comparable colours from W&N - their saturation was not generally as good and, at least until recently, their choice of pigments has not been as rigorous. Which brings me to one of my major reservations with them as they still donít list the pigments used on the tube, not good enough in this day and age in my book. And last but not least the last time I checked prices they also worked out significantly more expensive which I find amazing - much smaller tubes for nearly the same price!

I have not used Talens in a long while but they were definitely third-rate at the time. I believe they are much better now but I havenít tried them in nearly twenty years.

I have a couple of <A HREF=http://www.liquitex.com/>Liquitex</A> tubes and a number of medium-viscosity tubs and overall I am reasonably happy with them but I have specific reservations about a few of the colours which are definitely better from W&N both in pigmentation and consistency but also in hue but this is obviously a personal preference thing. They are indispensable for their range of opal/iridescents which I have not seen from anyone else but I will eventually replace all the standard pigment examples I have with W&N.

The two tubes of Maimeri I have tried were both very good, if a bit lacking in body, but both were highly pigmented. Looking at their documentation they have a few questionable pigments in their range but overall they look to be quite well-made and reasonably priced and they might be available in Germany so you could look out for them and give one or two a try. Incidentally their Ivory Black is actually Carbon Black PBk7, and they may be the only acrylic manufacturer to offer this colour.

I would definitely give Winsor & Newton Finity a try. They are getting a bit pricey but are absolutely worth the money. They have a good <A HREF=http://www.winsornewton.com/>website</A> if you want to check them out.

Einion
07-01-2001, 03:32 PM
Hi Victoria, Pebeo donít have the most sterling reputation but at least they document the Colour Index Numbers so you can see what they use... although why they use those mixes for Raw and Burnt Sienna is beyond me!

Did you hear that the supplies of natural earth pigments are running out? As a result a great many paint manufacturers are switching to the synthetic iron pigments to make their Umbers, Siennas and what have you. The terrible thing is they donít have to change their labelling as the artificial pigments have the same listed number as their natural counterparts. Only if you have someone like Winsor & Newton with their rigourous labelling practice do they specifically mention whether the pigment is of natural or synthetic origin.

I for one donít think they will be able to match the specific handling characteristics of both Raw and Burnt Sienna but the Umbers might not be so bad. As for Yellow Ochre, one of my favourite colours, if they simply substitute Mars Yellow I wonít be a happy bunny at all but I suppose weíll learn to live with it! :crying:

cuttlefish
07-02-2001, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by Domer
From the acrylics I've tried, the best is Liquitex High Viscosity (in tubes). It is the thickest and has the most intense colors out of the acrylics I've tried so far. And it has a nice non-gluey, soft, buttery feel.


Viscosity has little to do with pigment load with acrylic paint. The thickeners Liquitex uses in their high viscosity tube colors result in one third the pigment load relative to their medium viscosity jar colors. :eek:

(You can test pigment loads by mixing a measured quantity of each different paint type with the same pigment with 10 times that quantity titanium white paint. Always use the same brand and type of white for this test, regardless of the brand of the color. You can try this with larger prorprtions of white, but it must be consistent within each comparison group.)

I use mostly Liquitex jars, but I use Golden heavy body for many of their colors that are not available from other manufacturers, like zinc white and graphite. They're also slightly cheaper than Liquitex where I buy them. I also use Golden fluid colors for glazing and airbrushing. They have very high pigment density for liquid paints and I don't have to fight the viscosity during mixing.

sarkana
07-03-2001, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by Einion
Did you hear that the supplies of natural earth pigments are running out? As a result a great many paint manufacturers are switching to the synthetic iron pigments to make their Umbers, Siennas and what have you.

the supplies of nearly everything are running out as we strip mine this lovely big blue marble we inhabit. next, expect cadmiums to get insanely expensive as the mined cadmium on earth becomes rarer and rarer.

natural earth pigments are more expensive and harder to come by. unless your tubes specificaly state "natural", all your yellow ochres, burnt siennas and umbers are probably synthetic already. but don't freak out, because in many cases the synthesised pigments are more reliable and uniform than the natural stuff. i doubt very many people will know the difference when all common pigments are synthesised.

diphascon
07-03-2001, 11:41 AM
Hello,

thanks so much for that rich input.

From the favourites mentioned most often, Liquitex and W&N is probably available via mail order. Golden might be hard to get here in Germany, Chromacolour sounds interesting but is no nearer to me than UK ...

The more expensive (and ambitious) brands that are readily available in the stores around are LucasAcryl and Schmincke PrimAcryl. Anyone tested one of these? ....

cheers

martin adler

Einion
07-03-2001, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by cuttlefish
<b>...The thickeners Liquitex uses in their high viscosity tube colors result in one third the pigment load relative to their medium viscosity jar colors.</b>

:confused: Not to be argumentative but are you sure about this? Are you comparing the same colour in both viscosities or comparing one colour against another in each? I donít have their literature to hand but I recall seeing in an art shop a couple of weeks ago that they specifically state the pigment loads are (now) exactly the same for their high- and medium-viscosity colours.

Iím not a great fan of Liquitex as Iíve said but I canít imagine a paint even working with only a third of the pigment - a third less perhaps, but not two-thirds less!

cuttlefish
07-03-2001, 06:49 PM
I'm suggesting comparing paints of different brands or formulations that have the same identified pigment. Comparing different colors of the same product line will not tell you about relative pigment loads, but may reveal staining, mixing, and undertone properties.

My information on Liquitex may be out of date. I got the word on this in 1991 from a Liquitex customer rep, so I have to assume it was accurate at the time. It is entirely probable that they have changed their formulas since then.

sarkana
07-03-2001, 09:56 PM
Originally posted by VictoriaS
Sarkana: I haven't used liquid acrylics. But I figure you can get textures with the thicker stuff that you can't get with the liquids. Can you do impasto with liquid?

Victoria

i guess i'm more into layering than impasto. liquid acrylics tend to 'self-level' which means they sort of smooth out the brushstrokes on their own. that's the exact _opposite_ of what you would want in an impasto technique. but what i tend to do instead of buying heavy body paints is add impasto medium to my liquid formulas.

i also buy an acrylic 'thickener' from guerra to add a bit of body and drag to my liquid colors. add enough to even the most fluid medium and *presto* its heavy bodied.

i guess i feel its easier to make liquid colors act thicker than it is to make thick colors act more fluid. watering them down just doesn't look right to me. i tend to add clear mediums instead of water for tranparency or flow. maybe i am just a plastics freak! who else would make their own?

espax
07-03-2001, 10:24 PM
Earlier in this thread, I posted my preference for Chromacolour.

Has anyone else tried them with success?

Keith Russell
07-06-2001, 02:46 PM
Greetings:

Golden Airbrush Colours

'Nuff said.

Keith.

VictoriaS
07-06-2001, 05:35 PM
Espax: I haven't tried chroma colors. Are they actually acrylics, though, or something different? I have a general art book that has a little section on them, but I don't have it with me to check. I remember thinking they looked interesting and I might like to try them someday.

Sarkana: There are fluid mediums you can mix with the thicker acrylics to thin them instead of using water. I guess the choice just depends on whether you most often prefer to apply the paint thinly or thickly. Most often I just use the paint and no medium, and they (the thicker paints) level pretty well on their own. I find, even with the high-viscosity paints, I have to work at it if I want impasto.

espax
07-06-2001, 06:32 PM
Chromacolour is in its own class. Not so much because it is "better" than other paints, but because it is different.

It has a very high pigment load, and handles slightly different as even traditionally translucent pigments take on more opague qualities with their hues. It has a great deal of pop off the canvas. This is something that many people wouldn't want, so it's not for every painter.

You can airbrush with it, use it as ink (it won't clog), watercolor, etc; much like a typical acryl paint. Chromacolour dries to a gouche-like matte finish. Also, it dries a tad bit slower than acrylics.

Chromacolour fine art paints have been around less than ten years. So just as there exists oil-to-acrylic snobbery, some might be slower to try the newer paint.

However, anyone in the professional animation field should be very familiar with the company. They are one of the market leaders in animation cell paint.

Unfortunately, you can't just run to the art supply store and get some. You have to order it direct. If I could get it, I would paint nearly exclusively with chromacolour. It takes about three weeks to get it from www.chromacolour.com to get it shipped to Houston. I am not that patient.

DANCING PAINTBRUSHES
07-09-2001, 11:51 AM
For acrylic painting I like to use Delta Ceramcoat which goes on very well on any surface. Also like Liquitex and W&N for bigger projects. Happy Painting!:)

cuttlefish
07-09-2001, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by DANCING PAINTBRUSHES
For acrylic painting I like to use Delta Ceramcoat which goes on very well on any surface. Also like Liquitex and W&N for bigger projects. Happy Painting!:)
While I agree that Ceramcoat is probably the best of the craft-grade paints, and are very affordable at less than $2 for a 2 oz bottle, be warned! Like most craft paints, they rarely list a pigment as their color, but rather offer strange common names for hundreds of shades of pre-mixed colors. Also, if you find a bottle thats been sitting on the shelf for a while, you'll find that the pigment has settled out and the bottle is half full of liquid, mostly water! :(
There are some great products in the Ceramcoat line; I use their varnishes and sealants often myself, but I am uncomfortable with the idea of using their paints for serious work.
But hey, whatever works for you works, right?:D

DANCING PAINTBRUSHES
07-10-2001, 05:14 PM
Doing a lot of painting on slate for sale, I find ceramcoat works well for me. The colors are mixable and are quite durable. I do a lot of teaching in acrylics and find that ceramcoat is suitable for students as well as for professionals. The varnishes also work well. I have never been disapointed with the quailty or the durablity ofthese paints.

diphascon
07-12-2001, 08:14 AM
Originally posted by espax
It has a great deal of pop off the canvas.

:confused:

Sorry, my English is a bit rudimetary ...

What do you mean by "great deal of pop off the canvas" ???

cheers

martin

jnet11
07-12-2001, 12:50 PM
wow great topic-

I have to add that the acrylics that work for you are entirely dependent ont he effect you are after.

I use Liquitex Basics for about half my colors- and a quick look at my site will show you that bright, rich colors are what I get.

There are notable exceptions: The dioxazine purple is not waterproof when it dries- so it will mix with any colors you put over it, like watercolor.

All the browns are TERRIBLE, buy anything but liquitex for them.

The green selection I find a bit wanting ... but the phthalo green is good.

A couple brands I've noticed have a weird, distinctly plastic finish to them: M Graham and golden

Finity and Liquitex Artist quality is where I get the colors that the basics don't cover ... mars colors and some unusual yellows, pure reds, ivory black etc.

where can I find an acrylic white that isn't titanium?

jeanette*

VictoriaS
07-12-2001, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by jnet11
where can I find an acrylic white that isn't titanium?

jeanette*

Hmm. I'm not home so I can't look, but either Liquitex (artist grade) or Golden -- I'm almost positive it's Liquitex -- has something called "Transparent Mixing White." I think it's zinc. I will TRY to remember to check the tube tonight and tell you tomorrow what it says.

VIctoria

jheinrich
07-12-2001, 08:33 PM
hi victoria-

thanks you! but ... I went to 'the other' art store today on just that mission and found the zinc white in liquitex that you mentioned. I was just laughing because I started a new painting to use it, and found myself talking to the paint: "Who are you? Let me know you ..." hehehe yunno you're addicted when ...

cheers,
j*

cuttlefish
07-12-2001, 08:37 PM
Golden does have a zinc white, which is labeled as such. It is translucent, has a very smooth yet slightly gummy consistency, and a marginally warmer hue than titanium white.
To my knowledge, there is no commercialy available waterborne paint of any kind that contains lead carbonate (flake) white.

Sumafra
07-12-2001, 08:43 PM
I use Golden Fluid Acrylics exclusively. If I want a watercolor effect, I dilute them with water. If not, then I add some retarder and there just the right consistency for the way I like to work.

VictoriaS
07-13-2001, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by jheinrich
I was just laughing because I started a new painting to use it, and found myself talking to the paint: "Who are you? Let me know you ..." hehehe yunno you're addicted when ...

cheers,
j*

It is perfectly acceptable to talk to your paints. You needn't worry about yourself until they start answering you out loud.

Victoria

Einion
07-13-2001, 11:37 PM
Oh, I must tell mine to stop talking then :D

StarGate
07-14-2001, 02:16 PM
I read that some are painting thick where with brush or pallete knife - just a note

Golden (not sure of any other brands) makes a product called Light Modeling Paste that retains height and you can add colors to it and is very flexable for canvas use - you can check their site out for more information on Light Modeling Paste at
http://www.goldenpaints.com

mstownsend
08-01-2001, 05:29 PM
Lascaux Acrylics are really good products, but hard to find and expensive in the States.

W & N Finity is also a good product, as is Grumbacher Finest and Liquitex.

Golden makes several lines of paints and the pigment load is as high as possible for a thick paint wihtout cracking. The Liquitex Concentraed colors and Golden High Load Acrylics do have more pigment in them and are similar to Gesso in qualities. They have more pigment in them but need to be applied thinly because heavier applications, just like Gessoes, can develop a "crazing" or river-bank like cracking.

Thickness means nothing in terms of pigment load and film forming properties in acrylics. If you use a thickener like that Guerra product, you can thickne water into a paste if you want to, as long as you maintain an alkaline pH.

"Plasticy" is usually related to shiny, glossy acrylics. Some artists love it, some hate it. You can always add a matte medium or start with a matte product or for that matter apply a matte varnish when you are done, but these things will deminish the intensity of the color. As soon as you introduce fillers and matting agents, you compromise the qualities of the pigment.

My favorite brand of paint is Golden Fluid Acrylics, mixed with the Acrylic Glazing Liquid or the Soft Gel Gloss.

marthe
10-24-2003, 12:59 PM
Espax: Chromacolour sounds like a paint worth trying out.

Would there be no need to buy inks or watercolors since it can behave just like them with the addition of water?
Without the danger of weakening the paint film too much?
Or would a medium need to be added?

How does Chromacolour compare to Liquitex Basics Matt, Jo Sonja, and Golden Matte (fluid?) colors?

Anyone know of the best brand (with a fluid consistency) that dries velvety matte (dead matte)?

kiteless
10-24-2003, 01:48 PM
In order of favoritness (thats not a word is it :eek: )

golden heavy body acrylics. i like them because they don't artificially try and make all the colours uniform in opacity, granularity, etc. they let the pigments keep their own characteristics. also, for the quality of paint, the price is right.

golden fluid acrylics. same as above, plus the fact that you can great watercolour like washes out of these and they are great for detail work. again, the price is very reasonable.

liquitex medium viscosity. i love the consistancy of these things, and they are pretty cheap.

liquitex basics: this stuff if great for backgrounds, underpainting, and general applications where you don't mix the colours. most of them are lightfast, and while they aren't remotely opaque, they are still pretty good quality, and for the price you can use them as heavy impastos or whatever you want, and come back and use your high quality paints to put in details.

Mikey
10-24-2003, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by jnet11
wow great topic-

I have to add that the acrylics that work for you are entirely dependent ont he effect you are after.

I use Liquitex Basics for about half my colors- and a quick look at my site will show you that bright, rich colors are what I get.

There are notable exceptions: The dioxazine purple is not waterproof when it dries- so it will mix with any colors you put over it, like watercolor.

All the browns are TERRIBLE, buy anything but liquitex for them.

The green selection I find a bit wanting ... but the phthalo green is good.

A couple brands I've noticed have a weird, distinctly plastic finish to them: M Graham and golden

Finity and Liquitex Artist quality is where I get the colors that the basics don't cover ... mars colors and some unusual yellows, pure reds, ivory black etc.

where can I find an acrylic white that isn't titanium?

jeanette*

Golden Paints make Zinc White and unbleached Titanium.

gnu
10-24-2003, 03:35 PM
over here we can get Finity, Pebeo and an Australian one called Atelier...(maybe others in the city, 80 miles away)
I have a pebeo cobalt blue which is as weak as water as a colour..it dissapears totally in white!! plus the metal tube and cap keep sticking themselves together..
I haven't tried Finity..I use Atelier..price and colour range are both better, and locally obtainable(the rest are in town)
the paints are quite thick in texture..the tubes are plastic, whic I like, but they are Artist quality...

Mikey
10-24-2003, 03:37 PM
So it looks like Golden Acrylic Paints are the favourite for the pigment loading. Windsor and Newton Finity take a far different line wanting consistency of application. Some Golden heavy Body Acrylics will be glossy and others matt, so the paintings ideally need to be varnished. If you're going to use matt medium with Golden then OK. Finity has longer drying time, so the must use extenders of some kind. Golden paints will always use a single pigment unless otherwise stated. Finity Raw Sienna, for example, is made from Yellow and red Oxide. This gives it mixing properties you might not expect. Although it is apparently warmer than Golden Yellow Ochre, it will tend towards green when mixing. The logic behind Windsor and Newton's thinking is sometimes hard to know. Maybe they find it easier to make that way. Some pigments have free radicals which make manufacturing the paint difficult.

talkingbanana
10-24-2003, 04:08 PM
I love my W/N Finity paints. Unfortunately, I don't have the budget to try everything out there, and the only place I can get to easily that sells Golden paints way overprices them and I don't have that kind of money. I can, however, get Finity and Liquitex at a more reasonable price, so I chose Finity and I'm happy. Just started switching over from Liquitex Basics to my artist grade Finity paint, so I'm still using up the Basics as underpainting, blocking in color, etc. - the stuff that's important but won't necessarily show in the final painting.

There's a Jerry's Artarama store in my area, and when I have access to transportation, I may pick up a couple tubes of Golden to try. I've never really used anything artist grade but Finity, so when I have the money I'd like something to compare them with.