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Hazartist
02-28-2014, 05:03 PM
These may seem like stupid questions, but here goes: I know that you can abstract something with color, and then there are shapes. But, I look at the stuff on here and it's good, really good. I have trouble "thinking abstract." I don't want to just paint shapes for the sake of it. Can someone help me here? Where is a good starting point to study abstract, how to start, and how to make a good abstract piece of art? I don't want to paint something that a second grader can do or a monkey throwing paint onto a canvas. I want to learn abstract and do it with thought. Is there any help for me? Thanks in advance!

Katie Black
02-28-2014, 05:54 PM
You have to start somewhere, and that may mean painting something that looks like c**p!...but that's fine, its a process, and it takes time, I think your best bet is to use the internet for inspiration and ideas, there is so much out there, also there are numerous books for beginners, which you could start working your way through, but ultimately you just have to paint, every day, and post on WC for feedback once you feel you would like to, and buying a pad of canvas paper is a cheaper way of doing things..good luck

artbymdp
02-28-2014, 06:20 PM
The development of abstract art is steeped in history. To be truly inspired I would recommend that you learn of its origin. You can view a selection of the many documentaries found on line. Start with Cezanne move on to Picasso and end with Jackson Pollock. Good abstraction isn't for everyone and as you seem to understand, it is not a decorative art or an expression for those without ability. You are off to a good start since you seem to have the desire. As you learn more, just go for it, step back, learn some more and keep going for it. Before you know it, you will be running circles around that monkey. (However, don't underestimate the second grader). Good luck and have fun.

davefriend
02-28-2014, 07:39 PM
That is an excellent question or rather series of questions and what I am getting from this is you want to know how to paint abstract art. Before I go on I want to say welcome to the Abstract and Contemporary Art Forum it's a great place to be and we are glad you found us Hazartist! :thumbsup:

I have often asked myself the question how I would teach someone how to paint abstractly or even to paint like I do. On the second part of the question I would say you have to get inside my head and see what I see, feel what I feel, and become the process of moving some of that out of the cluttered mess that is my head and out onto something material, like canvas or something else that is real, so that others can see my insides without having to shrink down tiny enough to enter my head and see it for themselves. So I think there must be an easier way...

Traditionally when you wanted to paint flowers, you would go outside to the flower garden and pick some that you like, set them down in way that looks good to you then take your paints and brushes and copy them so that it looks a lot like what you are seeing with the flowers you picked. Some artists can paint flowers so well that you can smell their fragrance and almost feel the warmth of the sunlight as you gaze at the painting. It takes a lot of practice and hard work combined with the knowledge of both painting tools and materials and the techniques to make marks on a surface that will be believable to a viewer's brain which, hopefully, will immediately recognize the artwork as flowers.

In abstraction you still need all the practice and hard work, material and tool knowledge combined with a familiarity of mark making techniques to create an abstract painting. In my mind, at least, the big difference with abstraction is that you do not need to describe the flower in the same way traditional art does. Yes, you may want another person to be able to recognize you are painting a flower ...but how do you do that without painting the flowers like you see it?

Again, this is just me but I get interested in conveying what the flowers do to me, what happens when I see them, smell them, see them grow and drink in the sunlight Maybe even imagine if I was the flower and what is it like to need to be cared for, dependent on nature, where I live and my caretaker to stay alive and grow ...or what if I am, as the flower, now dying because I am no longer cared for or wanted and the sun no longer visits me? Now you can convey all these in traditional art but you don't want to copy real life you want to convey the emotions and essence of it all.

It all seems so esoteric when you put it in words (but then we are talking about abstractions!) and that is why you must create it as art - like painting. Edward Hopper, a talented representational illustrator said, "If I could say it in words there would be no reason to paint." So I see what the abstract artist doing is appealing to more than the object recognition centers of the brain but to the emotional centers that convey the feelings for, of or about something rather than imitation of its shape and dimension.

I will share with you a few pointers to get you started beyond that you will have some momentum that may take you to the finish line.

Personally, this is what I do... I set myself to work during a time when I can 'get lost' and nobody will go looking for me. I want every breath to be used in pursuit of what I am painting without interruption until I am done or at a stopping place. I know this is idealistic and I am interrupted a lot anyway but this is what I aim for.

I usually don't know what I am going to paint when I start (and often while I am painting - sometimes to the end!). It is just simpler that way and it has taken me a long time to recognize this as an aid to painting.

You need to know what colors you want to use. I do have colors that I like to work on and it helps if you are familiar with the properties of a certain palette or multiple palettes. Colors that you combine and ones you like to see playing together. If you don't know what colors work together then I would suggest you try two or three to start with and find what you can do with them. Which ones are like lovers, always beautiful together or you can use the ones which are always fighting ...if you use those colors then you may need a referee color, that is one that can be used as a transition between the clashing colors. There are rules about using color but in my book the only rule is there is no rule if it works and you have to develop an eye along the way to fully be able to judge that.

You may or may not like to start with a white canvas ...I have always toned mine to some color. You will have to work on what you like and what colors work under the palette you have chosen.

At some point during your session you need to remember this, don't be afraid to do it. Do what? What you were thinking you should do... was what you did a mistake? Don't be afraid to make mistakes. Mistakes are what the next masterpiece comes from and maybe what makes the painting you are doing so interesting. I won't say there are no mistakes but I will say you must throw away the fear of making them. You will and you will benefit from them ...you may even learn how to make them the best part!

One more thing before you start ...you like music? I find music can help me step into 'the zone' where everything will come together very much easier than if It is stone quiet. Some people work well in silence but I prefer music.

I start in front of the canvas with at least one or two colors chosen and with a large brush (to start with) make a mark somewhere. I really doesn't matter at this point where. Then make another. Maybe turn your brush a little differently or swoosh the line, pair the brush strokes, make the perpendicular or make them dots, whatever. Stop for a moment and ...what is it saying to you? anything? Go on and make a few more creative marks. Stop now and then and take a look. Did you make a face or something recognizable as something from the real world that your brain is saying, oh, that's a ____! Nooooo! Please try to find a way to work beyond making things, let things make themselves.

Now I pay little attention to what I am making and look for things that make me feel something. After I have made a dozen or so marks (and I have only been using one color) I will start to make some more marks with another color (often it is the first color modified with white or another color). What I am trying to do is get the lines, blotches, colors, shapes to say something back to me. If it is still quiet then continue on until you get a response from the painting.

If you are not getting it or it is not coming through to you ...check and see if you are thinking about things like this: when will I be finished or this is taking so long, this is hard, I'm tired, what's that noise? Did I pay the rent? If your attention is being sidetracked by this kind of stuff, I would guess that your left brain is still trying to dominate the show and you still need to find the zone where time and distractions have fallen away and you are hardly aware of them. I know people can paint from the left side of the brain - and kudos to you if that's you - but I am giving you advice from my way so if you are still bothered by them you will have to find a way through it and sharpen up your artistic senses so that you can hear the voice of the work that is talking back to you.

Once you hear that voice, you simply respond. Someone sticks their right hand out to you ...you extend yours and shake. Driving along someone slams on their brakes in front of you ...you put on your brakes. You are thirsty ...your get a drink. Hungry ...you eat. All are responses to different things. Learn to respond to the emotions of the work. If it is hard at first, keep at it - it will come. eventually it will be like breathing and your hear beating. That is you will hardly be aware of what you are doing and it will look like it all comes naturally.

There is so much more and so much more not mentioned. I could go on (and I heard some of you ...please don't! eeek!) but this should be enough for you to cull out what you think may be useful and what you have no need for. The important part is like the Nike commercial says "Just Do It!" Get yourself up, grab the brushes and paint then go make more abstracts. Maybe start small until you feel it more naturally.

I did more than a hundred 5x7 abstracts as experiments and practice pieces (still making them too). They are my "Little Panel Project (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1247642)". You can slap them out in no time and the expenses are much easier to handle than doing grand canvases and getting frustrated.

It is obvious that you 'want to'. Self motivation is the prerequisite to everything else. You can do it! :thumbsup:

Hazartist
02-28-2014, 08:08 PM
Wow! Thank you all for your input! I learned a lot just reading what all of you wrote, but I still find abstract scarey. I will be trying. I want to understand all kinds of art but find abstract the most difficult for me. You all are a wealth of knowledge and I'm so glad that I asked my questions.

Thank you all sooo much!!!!! And I'll keep watching this thread in case any more comments come in.

birdhs
02-28-2014, 10:54 PM
Each of is so very different, much like the hundreds of definitions written about "What is an abstract?"

I feel the painting before I begin, and often draw in vine charcoal on the colored gesso.
I always color the acrylic gesso with acrylic paints, usually a bright orange or yellow, as I cannot seem to feel any passion about white bread.

I feel the wind fighting the shape of the car, then relaxing with a sweet sigh as if finds the curves that let it feel massaged. I feel the smooth paint, the coldness of the chrome, the hot hood, the luxury of the genuine Corinthian leather (did I just reveal my age?).

I do not see an object as much as I sense its place in the greater universe. I imagine what a gardenia smells like as it is admired by a romantic person.
then I paint the smell.

I try to paint like that all the time, but it is only rarely... well, Van Gogh says it best:

"Instead of trying to reproduce exactly what I see before me, I make more arbitrary use of color to express myself more forcefully."
(Letter to Theo van Gogh, 11 August 1888)

"I feel such creative power in myself that I know for sure that the time will arrive when, so to speak, I shall regularly make something good every day. But very rarely a day passes that I do not make something, though it is not yet the real thing I want to make."
(Letter to Theo van Gogh, 9 September 1882)

if you really need to understand abstract artists, just type in "Quotes-Van Gogh" into your search...you will begin to understand

greggo

briansommers
03-01-2014, 11:13 AM
I can only share with what I know and what has helped me.

Step 1a: buy some cheap paint, like Blick's Tempura
http://www.dickblick.com/products/blick-essentials-tempera/
I know that a lot of people will tell you to buy the expensive stuff right away, I disagree. If you are rich, then buy the expensive stuff. If you are not than don't right away. Get a Black and a White then at least Red, Blue and Yellow and any other colors you want but at least those five.

Step 1b: buy some cheap paper
http://www.dickblick.com/products/blick-student-watercolor-paper/
I do recomend the big sheets.. why? I find it's just easier to work on. I find trying to paint small abstracts a lot more difficult than painting big.

Step 1c: buy cheap brushes.
go to your local hardware store and get a 1" flat and a 1-1/2" -2" flat and whatever else you want.. but that is all you need. The problem with cheap brushes at art stores is that they will be small.. You don't want small.

Step 2: PAINT!
a. VERY IMPORTANT: DON'T TRY TO DO "ART" just paint and have fun.. use lots of paint.. pour, drip, splatter, just make a hot mess! press things into the paint.. just bring your inner kid out.. and have a messy painting party. When you are done with all of this mess and you want to now take it to the next level... read on.

Step 3: Start studying:
In order to paint abstract art you need to learn the "tools" of the "trade".
Learn about the Elements of Art, Design Principles of Art.

Here are some great books:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/147013134X/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

http://www.amazon.com/Acrylic-Solutions-Exploring-Mixed-Media/dp/1440321124/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1393680843&sr=8-16&keywords=abstract+painting

http://www.amazon.com/Acrylic-Revolution-Techniques-Working-Versatile/dp/1581808046/ref=la_B001JRV8AY_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1393680920&sr=1-2

and now for some great DVD's
http://www.amazon.com/Scribble-Collage-Hand-Painted-Paper-Davies/dp/B00F1YCJR2/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1393681399&sr=8-4&keywords=jane+davies

http://www.amazon.com/Acrylic-Abstract-Painting-Evolving-Virginia/dp/B0049PF8I6/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1393680944&sr=8-2&keywords=virginia+cobb

http://www.amazon.com/Burridge-quot-Abstract-Painting-Collage/dp/B00681M1VQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=arts-crafts&ie=UTF8&qid=1393681063&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Joe-DiGiulio-Abstract-Expressionist-Expanded/dp/1935331027/ref=pd_sim_sbs_ac_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=1ZTJRSMB1PVXXKMSQ5SG

Some other good books to help you in your art indirectly.
http://www.amazon.com/Rework-Jason-Fried/dp/0307463745/ref=sr_1_sc_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1393682782&sr=1-1-spell&keywords=rewrork

http://www.amazon.com/Steal-Like-Artist-Things-Creative/dp/0761169253/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1393682769&sr=1-1&keywords=steal+like+an+artist

http://www.amazon.com/Show-Your-Work-Creativity-Discovered/dp/076117897X/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1393682769&sr=1-2&keywords=steal+like+an+artist


At any time, during the books, DVD's etc.. stop and go back and paint more with what you have learned.. PRACTICE PRACTICE AND THEN YOU GOT IT ............. MORE PRACTICE. Study other artists paintings, living and the dead. Try to paint like them, try to do a Rothko a Jackson Pollack drip painting and whoever else you like.. Post your work online at Wetcanvas and ask for feeback.

Now you might want to consider buying higher quality products.
Golden Paints
http://www.dickblick.com/products/golden-heavy-body-artist-acrylics/
M Graham
http://www.dickblick.com/products/m-graham-artists-acrylics/
Liquitex
http://www.dickblick.com/products/liquitex-heavy-body-artist-acrylics/
Holbein
http://www.dickblick.com/products/holbein-heavy-body-artist-acrylics/
Matisse Derivan
http://www.jerrysartarama.com/discount-art-supplies/acrylic-paints-and-mediums/matisse-derivan-acrylics-and-mediums/matisse-structure-acrylic-colors.htm

many others as well.

I have found if you want a very good student grade paint and I even use some of this now, it's very good.
Winsor & Newton Galeria
http://www.dickblick.com/products/winsor-and-newton-galeria-flow-acrylics/

My favorite type of brushes to paint with is by far the Beste brush, Ocean Wash series
They are very soft, can cut a sharp edge and great for glazing and washes. Great for building layers.
http://www.jerrysartarama.com/discount-art-supplies/brushes-and-palette-knives/watercolor-brushes/creative-mark-watercolor-brushes/beste-finest-golden-taklon-hair-brushes-and-sets/beste-finest-golden-taklon-hair-brushes.htm

If you have any questions or feedback, just ask.

Ishka Baha
03-02-2014, 02:05 PM
By now you are probably bamboozled by all the great comments you have received. There is also another book that should not be overlooked by Rolina van Vilet, "Painting Abstracts". There are 65 exercises - covering colour and composition throughout each exercise. It is very concise.

friesin
03-02-2014, 02:34 PM
all theses responses are really great!
I am an abstract painter myself because I found out that it is the way I "feel" painting should be.
Difficult to describe this "feeling" as it sounds so esoteric. Thats not me, I am not esoteric at all. But painting for me has to go beyond showing what everyone sees.
This being said I wonder why you want to learn painting abstract while it scaries you?
Painting something that scaries might be a difficult precondition.

This might help in addition to what has been said before:

Take a piece or a landscape you would like to paint. Look at it thoroughly. Squint your eyes.
Paint it. Or draw it. Do that as exactly as you want to as a first step.
Then put it away and start the same again. Try to paint quickly. Try to find out what is the most important aspect of your subject, which is the least must-be so that your subject can still be recognized? What is not necessary?
Then you do it again, maybe one or two days later. Don#t look at the original. Just try to paint from memory.
Paint quickly.

by this you will be able to remove lowly from the realistic way of painting. Try to remember why you want to paint just this one subject. Try to think what is the most important thing in this special subject.
Why f.e. did you want to paint this landscape?
because you know it? Because you like it? Because ypou live in it?
All these might be the answer, but you can go even further: what does this landscape mean to you? What exactly do you want to show with your painting? The soft edge of some hills? the greens in summer? The rough rocks?
Exaggerate those by painting.

Paint standing in front your easel rather than sitting.
Use large brushes, use long brushes. Paint quickly, without hesitating. Avois painting details. Care for contrasts: Dark, light, soft, hard, round, angled, cold, warm, small, big,...)
By this way you slowly move on to painting entirely abstract without needing the crutch of a concrete subject.

Its a long way.
But it is a wonderful and thrilling one :clap: It's a phantastic one, and it will show so much about yourself. It will enlargen your skills.
Just give it some tries (if you really want to go for abstract), it will be fun!

davefriend
03-03-2014, 03:26 PM
I am glad to see there are many good suggestions given by those who have commented.

I hope there will be more added. :crossfingers:

The question of how to paint an abstract comes up often enough that this would be a good time to share your own processes. I am guessing there are as many different ways as there are people willing to share them...

Jon
03-03-2014, 03:43 PM
I will remind folks there is a list of helpful books in one of our Sticky threads (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=542844). I believe they start on post two.

Also, when you encounter a helpful thread as this one I encourage you to take the time and rate it before you leave. The rating system is a drop down menu just atop the first post toward the right side of the screen. As the rating stars add up they will show on the front page to inform other readers our members found the thread helpful.

Jon
03-03-2014, 03:48 PM
Picasso is quoted as saying: "There is no abstract art. You must always start with something. Afterward you can remove all traces of reality."

I suggest a first step is simply looking at your subject and then reducing what you see into forms, shapes and colors. Experiment and enjoy!

DMSS
03-05-2014, 09:13 PM
This is a wonderful thread. I am no expert, only been painting a year, so my comments are "for what they are worth."

One way I start is by toning the canvas or paper with a thin to medium-weight, monochromatic wash. This layer varies as to how much of the canvas shows through, so thicker in parts, and thinner in parts. I try to scan that first layer and see whether I see a glimmer of a shape -- kind of like playing the game of what objects do you see in the clouds. If I see something that inspires me, then I try to develop that form, necessarily keeping the form very abstract because I don't draw all that well, and I play with colors, and compositional elements. I try to just let the painting become what it wants to become. If I don't see anything in that first layer, I put down another layer with a different color, on all or part of the canvas, maybe scumble it, maybe remove some of the second layer while it is still wet, and try to see "what is in the clouds."

Another technique I've used I learned from a Peter Dranitsin video on youtube (his youtube channel is called pdranitsin https://www.youtube.com/user/pdranitsin/featured (http://https://www.youtube.com/user/pdranitsin/featured)), where he suggested beginning by making a mark that you then repeat in several different places, maybe changing its orientation each time. So, I started one painting by making several S's, superimposed them on top of each other, just played with them, and then suddenly I'm off and running.

I usually end up somewhere far away from the initial inspiration.

I also watched a Virginia Cobb video, http://artclick.tv/content/acrylic-abstract-painting-evolving-image-virginia-cobb that was very interesting. One of the things I learned from her video was the idea of using tools to remove paint (as opposed to just thinking in terms of applying paint).

I'm glad I stumbled upon this thread because I've taken about a 6-month break from painting abstractly, and have been trying to improve my representational painting skills. I decided tonight to do an abstract painting, and was trolling this forum for inspiration with regard to how to get started, and here is this very recent thread which I had not seen.

Several of the posts have given me some ideas about other ways to approach a painting, so I'm pumped.

Now to the easel!

Ishka Baha
03-10-2014, 01:59 PM
If you are wondering how to loosen up your abstract painting I think this video is quite enlightening and even if it doesn't achieve what you are looking for it should make you smile.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NABOH1JwAE

Ishka Baha
03-10-2014, 03:50 PM
There is also one other video (Mel McCuddin) which I would recommend you watch if you don't know how or where to start.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3wz9wg0Dos

I found Mel's video truly inspirational - in fact he inspired me so much that I actually started painting.

DMSS
03-10-2014, 05:54 PM
There is also one other video (Mel McCuddin) which I would recommend you watch if you don't know how or where to start.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3wz9wg0Dos

I found Mel's video truly inspirational - in fact he inspired me so much that I actually started painting.
The McCuddin video is very interesting. Thanks for posting it.

lisaastrup
03-10-2014, 06:49 PM
great video, thanks for the link.

shari1948
03-20-2014, 04:23 PM
The My Generation did make me smile and gave me permission not to think about why I am doing what I love to do best...abstracts

Shari

FULLERARTIST
04-12-2014, 07:58 PM
Great thread. I would add Gerald Brommer to your quest. Google Gerald Brommer +abstract design. He has some wonderful grids to inspire you. K

abs100
04-29-2014, 04:39 AM
If you are wondering how to loosen up your abstract painting I think this video is quite enlightening and even if it doesn't achieve what you are looking for it should make you smile.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NABOH1JwAE


This is a fantastic video...so freeing and expressive. Thanks for posting it.

I am a fan of the Dutch Abstract painter Rolina Van Vliet. I find her first book inspirational. You could follow her method to start with if you liked:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Art-Abstract-Painting-Rolina-Vliet/dp/1844484270/ref=la_B003915O26_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1398757095&sr=1-4

Angus

Artyczar
05-28-2014, 11:52 PM
I know I'm coming late to this thread (I haven't been to this forum for a few months - jeez maybe longer!) but I was just giving some abstract advice in another forum here, so it's fresh in my mind.

It is maybe scary to start along a road that you think you don't understand, but understanding it can be as easy as just looking at a lot of abstract art and find out what moves you. It's really as simple as that.

I was just saying to someone else that abstract art might seem to some like paint just thrown on a canvas willy nilly - just the same way some abstract artists can't make the jump to understand conceptual art. Like the higher the art goes, the harder it might be to be open to it, especially once it surpasses aesthetics and gets into the realm of "concept."

It's hard enough to understand what makes an abstract painting successful. WHY would one abstract painting be more successful over another one?

I am self taught. I am not an academic at all, but after I was painting for some 20+ years, I began to study art history. I knew what artists I liked already, but I wondered why they were so wonderfully famous. There are just so many artists that have seen so much success over many many decades , it's impossible to make a list!

So, I started to read about who I liked.

My very first favorite artist was Paul Klee, then Kandinsky. Maybe you can start there? The two of them really started their own movement if you read up on those guys. Read about the Blue Riders (Der Blaue Reiter). There were a few artists in the group.

I like minimalist abstract too, but I favor more painterly stuff really.

The current painters I like are women, Amy Sillman and Dana Shutz. They are both extremely successful. You can find them both on Saatchi. Saatchi is one of the most (or maybe the most) infamous art collection in the world. Charles Saatchi notices you and that's it. You're an art star. Can you imagine?

If you start looking at the history of abstract art and the things that were tried during the times that they were tried, you might get some context for how far contemporary art has really come.

It's kind of like a dialog. A long dialog. And each decade of artists stands on the shoulders of what came before. It's not just paint thrown on the canvas like some people might think. It's an exploration of trying something new and, IMO, some artists touched upon taking things to the next step and some artists expressed. Some did both. I guess that's what the word means: abstract expressionism.

It's expressing. It's freedom. It's the only thing that matters.

There is also a lot "bad" abstract art out there and I think it's because there are a lot of repeats (derivative) work -- people trying to make things that they have seen. It's what they think is abstract art is, however there is nothing wrong with that either. All that really matters is that you enjoy yourself, not make "masterpieces."

None of us can do that, even when we've been working at it forever!

But once and a while we can squeeze out something decent. Hopefully. And we might even like it for a couple days - before we start to hate it again. LOL!

jimwhalen
06-04-2014, 07:05 PM
But once and a while we can squeeze out something decent. Hopefully. And we might even like it for a couple days - before we start to hate it again. LOL!

Yes! lol.

SandraNZ
07-22-2014, 03:59 AM
A good video - thank-you Ishka

Tallula2
09-29-2014, 01:42 AM
I am so glad I read these posts tonight. The suggestions and videos are just what I need to shake me out of my painter's block. Now I understand that it is not that I can't find a reference photo I am excited to paint. It is that I can't get excited about painting the photo with the realism that the camera records.

sterlinggirl
10-07-2014, 10:58 PM
I love working with abstracts. They're fun and I can be free with the paint. I work intuitively and feel the painting. It helps if you know the elements of composition, but art is subjective so just have fun and create your own style:thumbsup:
Sterlinggirl

Don Berendsen
10-08-2014, 07:08 PM
I am a fan of the Dutch Abstract painter Rolina Van Vliet. I find her first book inspirational. You could follow her method to start with if you liked:


Angus

Thanks for the information on Rolina, I hadn't heard of her. I've ordered two of her books and am looking forward to them.

Steeldolphin
11-29-2014, 04:03 PM
I was once told by a gallery owner that doing abstract before doing realism is like learning to run before you walk.

There is another saying in my own profession, you should be able to build what you design...

Okay that last one may not make that much sense but I think being able to faithfully reproduce that rose first (or as near as you are capable of) is the road to truly understanding its being, its structure, etc. When you can paint that rose, you may be better able to abstract it, as now you truly understand it.

Despite what a lot of people not making art might think, good abstract art is freakin' hard. I have also found that the more I learn about it - the more I understand it, the harder it gets! But I love it. If I could earn a living doing it, I would quit my job in a heartbeat.

Artyczar
12-07-2014, 04:37 PM
Chris,

I have to agree with you, although it doesn't mean that people can't make good abstracts without knowing the basics of drawing. I've seen it happen. Still, I think it's good to know your basics first. I just think the more you can master, the bigger vocabulary you have to do anything you want.

However, I do think you can run before you walk, just as long as you eventually walk too. Sometimes when people start out, their point of entry is expressionism. That's what leads them into art in the first place and they can more easily express themselves than someone who has been doing realism for 20+ years - as you say - abstract art is not always easy. It comes naturally easier for some more than others.

But I do think it's best to learn all your chops. If you know how to do it all well, or at least pretty well, there's no stopping you on creating anything you can imagine in any medium.

Tripod
01-03-2015, 08:46 AM
Quite frankly after all the above, I am still baffled. I am a figurative/realist painter and only attempted the works I posted in here today as a way of using up materials and a failed competition piece, not failed, but not acceptable.

I am a stickler for line and perspective and cannot get past that and being 75 yrs old and gone through all sorts of pain and trouble both physically and mentally in the last 2 years, I want t paint and still do almost daily.

Abstract has always been a mystery and I don't stop in a gallery to view a piece.

Where am I going wrong as I am a curious person in my search for what, where, why and how?

Artyczar
01-08-2015, 12:25 PM
Quite frankly after all the above, I am still baffled. I am a figurative/realist painter and only attempted the works I posted in here today as a way of using up materials and a failed competition piece, not failed, but not acceptable.

I am a stickler for line and perspective and cannot get past that and being 75 yrs old and gone through all sorts of pain and trouble both physically and mentally in the last 2 years, I want t paint and still do almost daily.

Abstract has always been a mystery and I don't stop in a gallery to view a piece.

Where am I going wrong as I am a curious person in my search for what, where, why and how?

Tripod,

What did you think about the feedback you were offered about the two pieces you posted?

Also, have you ever looked at Deibenkorn?

Tripod
01-08-2015, 01:06 PM
Thanks, very informative and no haven't looked at that, will do

Tripod
01-08-2015, 03:01 PM
Have just looked at Diebenkorn's gallery, liking it very much and there is a similarity to the work in progress I have at the moment after Kirschner. Thanks for the tip

clode
02-22-2015, 09:00 PM
thank you for all the advice.

trufflecat
03-15-2015, 01:00 PM
Great video! Thanks for posting it.
Diebenkorn is one of my faves, especially the Ocean series.

JoseCruz
03-19-2015, 08:53 PM
Lots of great feedback here and someone may have already said this, but what helped me and those I've tutored was looking at the evolution of abstract painting historically.
No need to go all the way back to impressionism.

Start with cubism- breaking down objects into their main shapes and colors.
I've taught students to do this working with pastels (for time and cost sake).

You'll start to see the flow of your compositions and what interest you and doesn't. It helps to have at least a basic understanding of color theory.

I'm a big fan of the New York Abstract Expressionist school (Rothko, Pollock, etc.). There are some great youtube biographical videos out there that delve into what these artist were trying to express. Finding kinship with one of them or another historic abstract painter may help inspire you.
Hope that helps.

Tripod
03-20-2015, 06:23 AM
Very useful thanks Jose. Can't say I am in to Rothko and Pollock but will take a longer look at them.

abs100
04-24-2015, 09:16 AM
Quite frankly after all the above, I am still baffled. I am a figurative/realist painter and only attempted the works I posted in here today as a way of using up materials and a failed competition piece, not failed, but not acceptable.

I am a stickler for line and perspective and cannot get past that and being 75 yrs old and gone through all sorts of pain and trouble both physically and mentally in the last 2 years, I want t paint and still do almost daily.

Abstract has always been a mystery and I don't stop in a gallery to view a piece.

Where am I going wrong as I am a curious person in my search for what, where, why and how?

Hi,



I read your post above and just wondered if you have any idea why it is you don't stop to view an abstract picture if you see one in a gallery?

The answer to that question might be quite interesting.....

The thing about abstract painting I find is that I need to turn off that part of my brain that looks at an abstract work and says "what is that???"


It's natural to ask what is it because from a young age we are taught that we should paint representationally. There are very few schools that offer expressive painting classes and yet the key to understanding abstract for me is to ask not "what is it" but "what do I feel about it".

Maybe the answer is "I don't know", but trying to turn an abstract work into something representational may limit what you can get out of it.

There are lots of different types of abstract work. I like abstract expressionism, because I enjoy the idea of expressing yourself through the marks you make on the canvas/paper. I can see the energy that the artist puts into making those marks, how dynamic they are (or not!), the colours they've used....

I believe we all have a response to colour (even though we may not know it). My wife hates orange. If i do something with orange she will usually say "oh I hate that colour". She however, loves blue and green. Sometimes we respond to the colours in a painting. I know that Rothko's colour fields work that way for me.

Hope this helps in some way.


regards



angus

harrymspitz
04-24-2015, 11:14 AM
I don't really like the term "Abstract". I prefer "non-representational". Just try to remember that a non-representational work is simply what it is. It should have visual interest and visual impact. There's nothing wrong with second grader Art or even monkey Art. So don't be so quick at trying to distance yourself from those genres. I personally try to paint like an elephant.

Tripod
04-28-2015, 11:44 AM
Thanks Harry and Angus. I think because of my old style of painting and what I appreciated didn't give my brian a chance to "see".
Since many months of hospital, much surgery and then on top of all that, a stroke, I have now got a new outlook. Odd as it seems to me and my followers, but that's it and I am now creating for me and not to exhibit and sell.

Upnorth88
05-29-2015, 01:12 PM
Mel's video was truly inspriational. Thank you for sharing.:)

nehagupta
08-01-2015, 06:33 AM
Before I begin the painting, I often draw the shapes in vine charcoal on the colored board. I always color the acrylic gesso with acrylic paints. You need to be able to see the thickness of the paint in order to begin appreciating it. Try your hardest to seek out this kind of art in a museum before you make any judgements about it.

PJ Johnson
09-04-2015, 01:39 AM
There is also one other video (Mel McCuddin) which I would recommend you watch if you don't know how or where to start.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3wz9wg0Dos

I found Mel's video truly inspirational - in fact he inspired me so much that I actually started painting.

I clicked on your Mel Mccuddin link and was just thrilled. He is inspiring to watch as he pulls images out of the background...and with such a positive attitude! The titles to his works are as great as the works themselves!
Thanks for the link!

Tripod
09-04-2015, 05:10 AM
Thanks 88, Gupta and PJ.
I have bought the Joan Blackburn book and enjoying a read and will experiment with her ideas one day, need a bit more space at present.

DMSS
10-31-2015, 10:03 AM
That is an excellent question or rather series of questions and what I am getting from this is you want to know how to paint abstract art. Before I go on I want to say welcome to the Abstract and Contemporary Art Forum it's a great place to be and we are glad you found us Hazartist! :thumbsup:

I have often asked myself the question how I would teach someone how to paint abstractly or even to paint like I do. On the second part of the question I would say you have to get inside my head and see what I see, feel what I feel, and become the process of moving some of that out of the cluttered mess that is my head and out onto something material, like canvas or something else that is real, so that others can see my insides without having to shrink down tiny enough to enter my head and see it for themselves. So I think there must be an easier way...

Traditionally when you wanted to paint flowers, you would go outside to the flower garden and pick some that you like, set them down in way that looks good to you then take your paints and brushes and copy them so that it looks a lot like what you are seeing with the flowers you picked. Some artists can paint flowers so well that you can smell their fragrance and almost feel the warmth of the sunlight as you gaze at the painting. It takes a lot of practice and hard work combined with the knowledge of both painting tools and materials and the techniques to make marks on a surface that will be believable to a viewer's brain which, hopefully, will immediately recognize the artwork as flowers.

In abstraction you still need all the practice and hard work, material and tool knowledge combined with a familiarity of mark making techniques to create an abstract painting. In my mind, at least, the big difference with abstraction is that you do not need to describe the flower in the same way traditional art does. Yes, you may want another person to be able to recognize you are painting a flower ...but how do you do that without painting the flowers like you see it?

Again, this is just me but I get interested in conveying what the flowers do to me, what happens when I see them, smell them, see them grow and drink in the sunlight Maybe even imagine if I was the flower and what is it like to need to be cared for, dependent on nature, where I live and my caretaker to stay alive and grow ...or what if I am, as the flower, now dying because I am no longer cared for or wanted and the sun no longer visits me? Now you can convey all these in traditional art but you don't want to copy real life you want to convey the emotions and essence of it all.

It all seems so esoteric when you put it in words (but then we are talking about abstractions!) and that is why you must create it as art - like painting. Edward Hopper, a talented representational illustrator said, "If I could say it in words there would be no reason to paint." So I see what the abstract artist doing is appealing to more than the object recognition centers of the brain but to the emotional centers that convey the feelings for, of or about something rather than imitation of its shape and dimension.

I will share with you a few pointers to get you started beyond that you will have some momentum that may take you to the finish line.

Personally, this is what I do... I set myself to work during a time when I can 'get lost' and nobody will go looking for me. I want every breath to be used in pursuit of what I am painting without interruption until I am done or at a stopping place. I know this is idealistic and I am interrupted a lot anyway but this is what I aim for.

I usually don't know what I am going to paint when I start (and often while I am painting - sometimes to the end!). It is just simpler that way and it has taken me a long time to recognize this as an aid to painting.

You need to know what colors you want to use. I do have colors that I like to work on and it helps if you are familiar with the properties of a certain palette or multiple palettes. Colors that you combine and ones you like to see playing together. If you don't know what colors work together then I would suggest you try two or three to start with and find what you can do with them. Which ones are like lovers, always beautiful together or you can use the ones which are always fighting ...if you use those colors then you may need a referee color, that is one that can be used as a transition between the clashing colors. There are rules about using color but in my book the only rule is there is no rule if it works and you have to develop an eye along the way to fully be able to judge that.

You may or may not like to start with a white canvas ...I have always toned mine to some color. You will have to work on what you like and what colors work under the palette you have chosen.

At some point during your session you need to remember this, don't be afraid to do it. Do what? What you were thinking you should do... was what you did a mistake? Don't be afraid to make mistakes. Mistakes are what the next masterpiece comes from and maybe what makes the painting you are doing so interesting. I won't say there are no mistakes but I will say you must throw away the fear of making them. You will and you will benefit from them ...you may even learn how to make them the best part!

One more thing before you start ...you like music? I find music can help me step into 'the zone' where everything will come together very much easier than if It is stone quiet. Some people work well in silence but I prefer music.

I start in front of the canvas with at least one or two colors chosen and with a large brush (to start with) make a mark somewhere. I really doesn't matter at this point where. Then make another. Maybe turn your brush a little differently or swoosh the line, pair the brush strokes, make the perpendicular or make them dots, whatever. Stop for a moment and ...what is it saying to you? anything? Go on and make a few more creative marks. Stop now and then and take a look. Did you make a face or something recognizable as something from the real world that your brain is saying, oh, that's a ____! Nooooo! Please try to find a way to work beyond making things, let things make themselves.

Now I pay little attention to what I am making and look for things that make me feel something. After I have made a dozen or so marks (and I have only been using one color) I will start to make some more marks with another color (often it is the first color modified with white or another color). What I am trying to do is get the lines, blotches, colors, shapes to say something back to me. If it is still quiet then continue on until you get a response from the painting.

If you are not getting it or it is not coming through to you ...check and see if you are thinking about things like this: when will I be finished or this is taking so long, this is hard, I'm tired, what's that noise? Did I pay the rent? If your attention is being sidetracked by this kind of stuff, I would guess that your left brain is still trying to dominate the show and you still need to find the zone where time and distractions have fallen away and you are hardly aware of them. I know people can paint from the left side of the brain - and kudos to you if that's you - but I am giving you advice from my way so if you are still bothered by them you will have to find a way through it and sharpen up your artistic senses so that you can hear the voice of the work that is talking back to you.

Once you hear that voice, you simply respond. Someone sticks their right hand out to you ...you extend yours and shake. Driving along someone slams on their brakes in front of you ...you put on your brakes. You are thirsty ...your get a drink. Hungry ...you eat. All are responses to different things. Learn to respond to the emotions of the work. If it is hard at first, keep at it - it will come. eventually it will be like breathing and your hear beating. That is you will hardly be aware of what you are doing and it will look like it all comes naturally.

There is so much more and so much more not mentioned. I could go on (and I heard some of you ...please don't! eeek!) but this should be enough for you to cull out what you think may be useful and what you have no need for. The important part is like the Nike commercial says "Just Do It!" Get yourself up, grab the brushes and paint then go make more abstracts. Maybe start small until you feel it more naturally.

I did more than a hundred 5x7 abstracts as experiments and practice pieces (still making them too). They are my "Little Panel Project (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1247642)". You can slap them out in no time and the expenses are much easier to handle than doing grand canvases and getting frustrated.

It is obvious that you 'want to'. Self motivation is the prerequisite to everything else. You can do it! :thumbsup:
I return to this post from time to time. It is inspiring.

Tripod
10-31-2015, 10:15 AM
Still subscribed to this thread and it is helpful to go back in now and then, as with all things.
Some of my abstracts or non represential work has received some encouraging coments, both in here and the POL website I do a lot on.
Have just gone over in acrylics with a roller, credit cards, a failed 50 x 40 watercolour dating back to 98 and am reasonably pleased but it's not complete as with all things I can now see a direction in it and an idea.
Resting from now on with a light lunch, then couch potatoing with Rugger final on telly. We failed miserably but still hopig to see a good game.

What I have painted over today. We will wait and see.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Oct-2015/62415-An_old_water_colour.jpg

Medeea
11-16-2015, 07:45 PM
I remember I used to have a friend that made some amazing expressionistic paintings....until one day I see he makes realistic ones,not bad,but it was like I was looking at some photos and not art.Then I asked him why such a sudden change of style and he told me that his abstract art got him into depression because it was very draining and so he switched to realistic things and painting what he sees in front of his EYES is calming and relaxing.And then it struck me that...yes abstract art is far more demanding than other types and it takes not only brush strokes and color management but also a constant look deep inside your soul-and that's hard believe me.Because what you see there is not only a "tree" for ex...is(or could be) a symbol,a personal symbol maybe an archetype a sudden memory, a flash back,a connection with your darkest emotions and instincts and if it happens to come out as a simple line...well that's like a sigil for that particular experience that you just had.And then I hear people saying abstract is not art...oooh boy...they know nothing about art and what is like being an artist then...

alexanderdze
11-17-2015, 06:06 AM
I remember...
Thanks for this story, very interested!

I think its very hard to do abstract art full of happyness and enjoy. Often its question about artists inner world and troubles in it.
Well, each person have own path and own interests, some people dont interested in abstraction, but for some its a way for the expression of ownself.

For me genre of art isn't metter. It can be a classic or contemporary, important only how to go - with opened heart or with closed mind. First way open new horizonts, second will close all of the doors.

laf.art
11-17-2015, 03:56 PM
Medeea, a very interesting story. It really resonates. I think the biggest difference between realist painters and us is that they have the luxury of always having something to paint - whether the muse is with them or not. Whereas depending on our mood/state of mind we can be flooded with ideas or just blocked with not a muse in sight

Medeea
11-17-2015, 07:49 PM
Don't get me wrong...I also do realistic things as a way to improve myself and I do it because I need to improve my technique.To me a good artist is always a good technician but a good technician is not necessarily a good artist.There are a lot of people out there that copy/paste photos ...and you know what?is not hard to do and this doesn't makes you an artist(for ex I am working right now on a realistic leopard charcoal that I try to copy paste from a photo...am I an artist if I do that?NO). What makes one an artist(in my opinion) is the ability to show what he/she sees with his inner self in that photo or that landscape that he/she's looking at right now.

Patrick45
01-14-2016, 08:46 PM
Could someone recommend basic software that would let me stitch together two scans into one picture? Most of my watercolors won't fit on my scanner and I have to do them in two parts, but Windows Paint (that I use) doesn't have the stitching feature. -Patrick

GoAmmymclane
01-20-2016, 07:01 AM
I would recommend you watch YouTube Video and know how & from where to start. If you want example you can choose online


hope this can help you
Thank you:)

MartinShannonxoxo
06-02-2016, 01:54 AM
Youtube is a wonderful place to get free tutorials,lessons, color info such as color theory, color wheel and using it . Check out Michael Lang he is amazing and for a twist check out scott naismith he is a Scottish land scape artest and mix lang is a great abstract artest.they are my favorites at this time and learning from them is a welcome challenge.

MartinShannonxoxo
06-14-2016, 02:45 AM
:clap: Everyone is right if you have the want you can do,abstract to me is emotion,and direct from the soul. I use it as a window into my mind if you get what ever it is I have created than it is humbling yet gratifying at the same time. So I say pick up some paint and brushes and something to put it on and let go,paint loose and use the energy that is waiting to flow from you Palit. Just do it ,go for it.

chantalleblanc
07-02-2016, 10:44 AM
Wow... Thank you for your insight. I am an emerging artist and your comments resonate with me...

Eraethil
07-02-2016, 01:18 PM
Replicating the world or a photo of the world around you doesn't qualify as representational art for me any more than random careless loose splashes of colour qualify as abstract art. Artists that take these approaches have to produce far more work to get a few strong pieces.

There has to be something in the piece that comes from the artist, whether intellectually driven or emotionally driven. And this "content" is the hard part of creating art. I don't think you can ever escape this difficulty, but some artists find their unique personal contributions to their images flow much more easily out of one genre of art or another. I enjoy both abstract and representational (and the between) but I find abstract more freeing for my ideas and feelings right now.

As artists, I think we need to be careful not to minimize the process, motivation, and resulting work of artists in other genres. I'm often offended when people speak of abstract art as random mark-making, or similar to a 3 year old's scribbles. But it concerns me just as much if someone speaks of representational art as just photocopying the world.

Hopefully your friend is just building the skills needed to do highly realistic work that will one day be amazing art. :)

ronart
07-21-2016, 06:16 PM
ok . let me stat by saying i am not new to art, i have been painting for over 40 years, usually in oils and in the realist style. i just don't understand abstract ! i have seen some works that were not way out there with pleasing colors and composition that i like, but i would like to know how to appreciate all art. i watch a movie the other nite about Jackson Pollock, and i just have to say i don't get it, dribble paint and slinging paint at the canvas , really, explain to me how that is talent , now i don't mean to put any artist down, but when you spend hours and hours on a beautiful landscape or seascape, and then look at one of his works that sell for high $$$. help me understand .

rw1
11-30-2016, 06:32 AM
this thread by HAZARTIST is a good one as I , myself , who has an interest in abstract art wants to be the best abstract artist / painter that I can be . I will be spending a lot of time in this particular forum & the answers to her questions in this forum have been helpful to myself .

ronart
12-20-2016, 10:10 PM
is acrylic used more for abstract than oils. i want to try abstract and I mostly paint in oils, but seems like acrylic may be better suited because of the drying time, also what brand and should I buy in tubes or does it come in larger containers

Thanks , Ronnie

davefriend
12-21-2016, 12:21 AM
this thread by HAZARTIST is a good one as I , myself , who has an interest in abstract art wants to be the best abstract artist / painter that I can be . I will be spending a lot of time in this particular forum & the answers to her questions in this forum have been helpful to myself .Glad to know you will be spending time in this forum. RW1, let me add my welcome to the many others you will receive here!

thevaliantx
12-27-2016, 08:28 AM
Another suggestion, from moi, (my tablet wanted to type 'moisture'......sigh) is to make the time to look at the world in negative space perspective. You will find all sorts of random shapes. My latest thing is to look at the floor for scrapes and wearing away.

DMSS
12-27-2016, 08:42 AM
is acrylic used more for abstract than oils. i want to try abstract and I mostly paint in oils, but seems like acrylic may be better suited because of the drying time, also what brand and should I buy in tubes or does it come in larger containers

Thanks , Ronnie
I think acrylic versus oils is a matter of personal preference for the particular properties of each. Some use one, others use the other. If you want fast drying with no worry about fat over lean, then acrylics might be for you. You can get info on brands in the acrylic forums. Heavy body acrylics come in tubes and jars. Soft body acrylics come in tubes and bottles. I like Golden and Liquitex. Winsor and Newton and M. Graham are good, too.

Mark Addy
02-16-2017, 11:16 PM
I love this thread! Thank you all for the input.

clode
03-11-2017, 06:38 PM
Thank you for this very interesting exchange.

ptrkgmc
07-20-2017, 03:46 PM
Hazartist,
Remember that abstract ideas can also be representational. The line is not doawn in any particular place.
Patrick

ptrkgmc
07-21-2017, 09:02 PM
Hazartist,
Smash some oils into your canvas, paint in earthtones, (I would). Then blend your creation with a dry brush. All over, (I would). Set it aside and eyeball it untill you decide what to paint as your next layer. And then your next layer, and then your next layer.
Its almost certain that youll learn something.
Patrick

KreativeK
07-22-2017, 12:45 AM
Some very good tips, Patrick!

Hazartist
07-22-2017, 01:14 PM
I keep coming back to this to see what has been added. I have a lot more studying to do! Thank you all for your expertise and advice! :clap:

GingerSuz
08-11-2017, 03:00 PM
All great stuff but davefriend, this is such an amazing answer! Love, love, love what you wrote. It's almost exactly the way I feel and work but I definitely love this part:
"Now I pay little attention to what I am making and look for things that make me feel something. After I have made a dozen or so marks (and I have only been using one color) I will start to make some more marks with another color (often it is the first color modified with white or another color). What I am trying to do is get the lines, blotches, colors, shapes to say something back to me. If it is still quiet then continue on until you get a response from the painting."
Thank you so much for today's inspiration!
:clap: :clap: :heart:

KreativeK
08-11-2017, 10:08 PM
Welcome to WetCanvas, Susi! I'm learning a lot, too, right along with you.

mackb
08-19-2017, 11:27 PM
Fantastic resource guys thank you.

bm

clode
03-17-2018, 06:29 PM
DMSS damage the given links do not work it removes the meaning about..no see what we are talking about ..

clode
03-17-2018, 06:31 PM
these links there ..I can not open ..damage


J'ai aussi regardé une vidéo de Virginia Cobb, http://artclick.tv/content/acrylic-a...-virginia-cobbc'était très intéressant. L'une des choses que j'ai apprises de sa vidéo était l'idée d'utiliser des outils pour enlever la peinture (plutôt que de penser simplement en termes de peinture).

KramNos
03-23-2018, 06:25 PM
I studied with a protege of Hans Hofmann who always said "make honest marks." I also like to use the Bull Test. I look at a mark, or scan a section and ask my self "Is this bull?" After some practice you can get pretty good at spotting it. These sections usually fall into one of three categories:
1. Trying to impress
2. Rushing
3. Protecting (We can't let go of part of the painting that we love, but that no longer works).

One thing that really helps is to apply this test to the masters. Pollock, DeKooning, Kandinsky for example. Of course this is just as applicable to figurative painting as well. It helps get past technical wizardry and into what makes a painting truly great - honesty.

I suggest reading Interviews with Francis Bacon.

Hope that is helpful.

Mark

KramNos
03-23-2018, 06:36 PM
Love this: "don't be afraid to do it. Do what? What you were thinking you should do..."

The great thing about being an abstract painter is the opportunity it gives us to break though fear honor our deepest self, ironically by letting go of our ego.

KramNos
03-23-2018, 06:52 PM
I still do both - almost always simultaneously. If you looked at my figurative and abstract side by side I don't think anyone would guess they are by the same person (although another artist might notice similarities in pallet - I often actually share the same pallet!).

Figurative work helps me think about values and line quality in my abstract work and abstraction helps inspire color combinations and creative flexibility in my figurative work. Usually I start the day with figurative work, switching to abstract mid-afternoon. Then I put them both up and look at them. FOR A LONG TIME.

KramNos
03-23-2018, 06:53 PM
Two other quick things:

1. Look at it a lot. Look and look and when you're mind says stop then force yourself to look for at least one more min.

2. Constantly turn it on each side. You'll be amazed what jumps out at you.

DMSS
03-23-2018, 07:46 PM
these links there ..I can not open ..damage


J'ai aussi regardé une vidéo de Virginia Cobb, http://artclick.tv/content/acrylic-a...-virginia-cobbc'était très intéressant. L'une des choses que j'ai apprises de sa vidéo était l'idée d'utiliser des outils pour enlever la peinture (plutôt que de penser simplement en termes de peinture).
Sorry. The link is no longer good. I don't know how to fix it.

clode
03-24-2018, 10:23 PM
thank you David .. it does not matter .. not easy to keep active links on a forum ..

JenieJo
06-11-2018, 07:16 PM
I agree, Mel's video shows so much of his processes, it is very interesting. Thanks for posting.

Pomacanthus
07-03-2018, 01:10 AM
creating abstract is painfully easy AFTER you tap into the energy of the universe, interpret it, and then just represent it visually. Good Luck!

stphspence
07-18-2018, 05:37 PM
Sorry for such a late reply. Abstract, in whatever form you approach it from, has been a series of experimentation and trial and error. I sawa suggestion early on about surfing the internet and searching for abstract examples. Great suggestion. In the end, it just painting what feels right at the time and gives you pleasure. May not always be something you like at the moment, but will grow on you over time, or may end up being something you think is hideous, but you get rave reviews from others...go figure sometimes? But I have found that those who say a Monkey could pain that, do not fully grasp the actual time, effort, and heart that ends up going into the art.

Helen
10-25-2018, 08:42 AM
ok . let me stat by saying i am not new to art, i have been painting for over 40 years, usually in oils and in the realist style. i just don't understand abstract ! i have seen some works that were not way out there with pleasing colors and composition that i like, but i would like to know how to appreciate all art. i watch a movie the other nite about Jackson Pollock, and i just have to say i don't get it, dribble paint and slinging paint at the canvas , really, explain to me how that is talent , now i don't mean to put any artist down, but when you spend hours and hours on a beautiful landscape or seascape, and then look at one of his works that sell for high $$$. help me understand .

I don't see an answer to your question ronart; I had the same question about Pollock but decided that it must be because it comes from his soul. He was a troubled man and his art seems to reflect that. But I think of that as non-representational art rather than abstract. To my mind abstract is an abstraction of something. I suppose in some cases one could say an abstraction of a square or a circle.... don't know but I am just beginning to learn …. not about painting, I've been painting for more years than I'd like to admit but realism. This non-representational stuff is new to me and I like what everyone has to say about it.

Anthelix
11-16-2018, 11:22 AM
Hi everyone!
A very inspiring thread, thanks a lot.
Please, I'm looking for content, ideally books, but personal tips or links to websites are more than welcome, about the following themes.


1)How do you turn a tangible subject into an abstract (or a more abstract) painting, on an intuitive and a rational level?
How do you choose what will become your subject?

2) How do you paint an abstract concept, an emotion, music? How do you convey a complex message without words and not only what can't be said with words?
How can you make sure you will be understood without knowing the cultural context of the viewer? Is there a grammar of abstract painting or a set of design patterns?

3)How can you use abstract painting to dig into your subconscious, into dreams and forgotten memories?

Sheldon Smith
01-21-2019, 05:18 PM
Abstract art grew in popularity with the development of the camera and man's ability to record realistic images. Prior to the camera, artists made mucho $$$ painting portraits of rich folks and their relatives or preserving some important moment/event in time. The Impressionists diverged from this practice, as did Braque and Picasso with Cubism and by World War I realists/representational artists could not produce paintings more poignant or emotionally involving than the photos being taken at the time. Photography essentially took over the work of portraiture and landscape painting, and most of the major art movements of the 20th century concentrated on abstract and conceptual art. I'm not saying there is no room for representational painting, but that photography now shares that space.

For me, the biggest difference between painting representational and painting abstract is that with representational you have a notion always of where you are going, your direction, and what you are trying to achieve. With abstract painting, it is a challenge to start, a challenge to continue and a challenge to finish a painting. You don't know where you are going until you get there, and you don't know when you are finished until you draw a line in the sand and call it quits. Abstract for me represents the uncertainty of modern life and our constant quest to make something of nothing, of a feeling, of an emotion, or an intellectual concept. It is the uncertainty of the the journey that makes the journey more critical, focused, and beautiful when it works.

IanBertram
03-16-2019, 02:35 PM
My belief is that we are 'hard-wired' to find certain combinations of colour, shape and line more pleasing than others. There are archetypal elements too like the line, circle etc which we recognise without thinking.

Representational artists can work towards that point starting from real world examples. Abstract artists have to find that particular combination in the infinite number of possibilities available. I'm sure we've all seen landscapes which are accurate depictions of real places but which leave us cold. The same applies to abstract work.

In the end any 2d image, however realistic is an abstraction from the real world. I suspect the great representational painters approach their work in exactly the same way as abstract painters, juggling the elements of the landscape they see 'out there' to create a pleasing form on canvas. The abstract artist has an extra step in creating those elements in the first place.

If you look at their work though you will find repeating elements and motifs which they rearrange and shift around as they look for that elusive balance.

harrymspitz
07-17-2019, 07:15 PM
I would suggest that a beginner abstractionist could start by imitating great abstract artist just to gain and understanding of what they did and how they did it. Try to get into their spirits. Try to make a Jackson Pollock then try an to make a Gorky and then a Rothko. After that you should know what you like and you should be able to find your own voice. This was the method that Arshile Gorky used and he was one of the greatest painters of the 20th Century.

briansommers
07-18-2019, 09:17 AM
to the OP

have you painted anything at all yet?

suniljoshi
09-19-2019, 12:21 PM
Suddenly so much We could read about abstract here, very nice information shared here.


Even I feel there is no rules for abstract painting, its the bold expression which is expressed though strokes and which comes to any artists mind on any topic he feels to..:)
please see my abstract here'


https://artanddesign.store/product/acrylic-painting-ganga-varanasi/

KreativeK
09-23-2019, 01:41 PM
This is a very nice and colorful abstract!

acfkt
01-29-2020, 02:05 PM
"painting with purpose" Morris Davidson

Sorry... trying to answer the person on page 1????

Gwen Solvaag
02-05-2020, 01:56 PM
There are two sources which I have found helpful.
One is called, Realistic Abstract Art by Harry Sternberg. The copyright is 1959 by the Pitman Publishing Corporation.
The author gives examples of abstracted art, and also gives suggestions of ways to abstract a subject.
Another book is, Still-life Drawing and Painting by Jack Hamm. The copyright is 1976 by Jack Hamm.
There is a section beginning on p. 74 called, "Introduction to Abstraction". He shows a progression of a drawing of a spoon from realistic to what he calls "pure abstraction" presumably meaning non-objective. The section continues to page 87, including topics of "Departing from Reality," "Transparency and Interpenetration," and an "Experiment in Abstraction."

I have attached a drawing called "Abstract Spoon" which is different views of one spoon composed together.
I hope you will be able to find these sources.

Gwen