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Saskia
01-29-2014, 03:57 PM
Hello,

I am just starting out with Panpastels and have no prior soft pastel experience. I am on a tight budget and therefore want to get colors appropriate for mixing. So far I own the painting set of ten, which gives me my primary colors, white, black, and some browns, but I wanted to get a few more as well. I know I want red iron oxide and chromium oxide green, and I might be able to pick three more.

Anyway, as I was looking at the colors on Blick, I noticed something. It seems like almost every color (except the grays) has a "regular" pure pigment version (as in phthlo green, permanent red, etc), an extra dark, a shade, and a tint.

So, clearly the tint would be the regular pure pigment color with white added, and the shade would be the pure pigment with black. But what about the "extra darks?" Are those just shades with more black added, or do they have more color pigment as well? Chromium oxide green extra dark, for instance, looks greener than the chromium oxide green shade, and not just "blacker." This might not be accurate, though.

Any insight on this color naming scheme would be appreciated. To stretch my budget the furthest, I think I need to understand how they are doing things. :)

Thanks!

robertsloan2
01-30-2014, 09:18 AM
They have even more black added. One color I would recommend in addition to Painters Ten is Magenta. That is an extremely useful mixing color and a pure pigment in itself.

Turquoise or Pthalo Blue tint might be very useful as a sky color. Tints and shades are convenience colors, you're at a level where adding new pure pigments extends your range. So that's up to you whether you want convenience colors or more pure pigments. I'd find a light blue tint the most useful with possibly a peach tint, a complement. Or the deep dark Violet which is excellent in landscapes. It depends on your favorite subjects too.

In landscapes a very dark violet is extremely handy. It can look richer than black when you're using it for dark accents, so that's what I'd add for a deep dark shade if you're adding convenience colors.

But the Magenta is a mixer categorically different from Permanent Red, it will give very bright violet mixes and a full range of hues. Other pure colors - the warm yellow, Diarylide Yellow might be good. The warm blue, Pthalo blue or Turquoise for a third pure hue.

Magenta, Turquoise and a warm yellow are my pure pigments suggestions. Depends on your budget but those are all very useful colors. If you do a lot of portraits then earths tints might be more useful and convenient.

JPQ
01-30-2014, 10:32 AM
phtalo blue is based pigments is better for CMY type working. i think turquoise dont allow any kind "strong greens" or good violet. i dont yet own any of these but i want test someday.

Saskia
01-30-2014, 10:46 AM
Thanks Rob, that is what I wanted to know. After playing around some more with the pans and having limited success with mixing, I have decided to stretch my budget to buy the rest of the pure pigment colors (except maybe yellow green), as well as the shade set. Later I will get some extra darks, as I see myself using them a lot more than the tints. I like to paint dark, cool landscapes. Also, it seems easier for me to mix a tint than a shade for some reason.

I will definitely get the magenta. I don't know why, but I am having a terrible time mixing the permanent red with anything. No matter what I do, I cannot seem to get a subtle blend that doesn't have hints of what the red looks like undiluted. It isn't a matter of streaks--it's mixed well enough--its just that that particular hue seems to taint everything it touches.

Ah well, I'm sure it's me. I will just have to get better at mixing. But regardless, these things are really addictive! I'm going to have to watch out. :eek:

robertsloan2
01-30-2014, 03:32 PM
They are sometimes cheaper in sets. What I find convenient for plein air is 10 Painters plus 5 Tints and 5 Deep Dark shades. I set those up in two 10 color trays and they're smaller trays, easier to handle.

Magenta's a go-to red though. In many mediums it's a lot easier to mix with magenta than with a mid-red or orangy red. I'm not sure why, but it is. Magenta will make decent oranges with yellow easier than an orange cast red will make violets and magentas with blue.

You can't go wrong using the pure pigments though. I do like the yellow green, when I get out my full range I love using the pure tones.

DAK723
01-30-2014, 05:42 PM
So, clearly the tint would be the regular pure pigment color with white added, and the shade would be the pure pigment with black. But what about the "extra darks?" Are those just shades with more black added, or do they have more color pigment as well? Chromium oxide green extra dark, for instance, looks greener than the chromium oxide green shade, and not just "blacker." This might not be accurate, though.
I emailed the makers of PanPastels and here is what they said:

Tints are the pure color plus white.
Shades are the pure color plus black.
Extra Darks are the pure color plus more black.

I cannot seem to get a subtle blend that doesn't have hints of what the red looks like undiluted. It isn't a matter of streaks--it's mixed well enough--its just that that particular hue seems to taint everything it touches.
Some pigments are stronger in terms of tinting strength than others, so you may be doing nothing wrong at all!

Don

Saskia
01-30-2014, 08:03 PM
Rob - Yes, they are almost half the price in sets. On Amazon you can get the sets of 20 for $70, whereas the cheapest you can get them per single unit is $5.99 at Dick Blick. I have decided on the full set of shades, but as I already have the 10 color painting set, I can't save much money there. I wish they sold the other ten painting colors as a set as well, but they don't.

Don - Ah, straight to the source! Thanks. That was my next plan if I didn't get an answer here, but you beat me to it. :) Looks like they're pretty quick about answering emails!

Maybe it is the pigment's fault on the permanent red mixing, then. Whatever it is, I have come to hate that color. Horrible, horrible stuff. As soon as I can afford it I'm going to buy every premixed red they have just to avoid ever having to mix with it again. That magenta can't get here soon enough for me.