portrait WIP with new HOLBEIN OIL PASTELS!!!

[Dyin]

Hey...as usual I'm working too slow...do a burst and take a break...but when I got my new set of 50 Holbein OPs I faced a new dilemma! I have only 8 colors, in a range of 5 tones and then the total gray scale...the colors are: hansa yellow, antique orange, crimson, cobalt blue, red violet, permanent green, viridian and burnt sienna...no ochres!! no burnt umber!!! no generic flesh tone that I can use as a base to add color to!! A lot of artists here have had schooling in color theory...being self taught, I've learned by trial and error...no real experience mixing paint either...so first challenge was to make a flesh tone...I'm not using the green, orange or viridian for this one, so I'm working with 5 colors...I'm posting now rather when done so you can see how haphazardly I'm doing this...at first I had no intention of finishing this...it's on sketch paper, I'll be re-working the forehead area...I tried blending with a rubber tool there...blech!!! All this is just light layers over others, like you would do in soft pastels...no turp, just occasionally a light blot with a cotton swab. I lightly sketched in with the lightest red violet as I knew I wanted those tones and it's easy to cover...just a rough sketch...I do a lot of corrections with values as I go...his jawline will lower some...(this is my husband btw)...this is all rough, I started much lighter and have been building up as I get more done...I may have bolder color in the final piece...not sure yet...the rims are gold...started with blue and will take to green...experimenting on everything in this piece...but I'm liking the skin tones I'm getting...lots of barely perceptible gradiations in tone and I'm really having a blast and think I'm getting more interest this way. There is a slight bit more of an orange tone to the original, less violet, but this shows the tonal changes... What do you think of the skin, hair and colors so far??

And yes, I think these Holbeins are awesome!!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Sep-2003/19147-Chop_holbein_2.jpg

[JamieWG]

Sue, there's no way I can offer you any advice on this. Your portraits have me absolutely floored. This appears to be a lesson in "less is more". I think the colors are stunning. That purple is working in so well!

Jamie

[JamieWG]

I hope that's not cheap sketchbook paper you're doing this masterpiece on! :evil:

[Dyin]

Originally posted by JamieWG
I hope that's not cheap sketchbook paper you're doing this masterpiece on! :evil:

gulp!! :rolleyes: I had NO intention of doing anymore than practicing with this...but it would be a shame not to finish it up and see how it all works out...I can always just put it in a little frame for him...it's just 5x8 inches...
thanks so much for your kind comments....and it really is less is more...it's so exciting to see the colors individually in the original and yet they all optically blend...even tho I added color layers to generic skin tones on my other stuff it wasn't nearly as alive...really, thanks for popping over to look!

[Kathryn Wilson]

Well, Sue, you know what I think of this portrait already, but glad that you posted it for everyone to comment on. It's a wonderful start and can't wait to see the final version.

I know that Chopper is hanging over your shoulder watching every stroke - LOL.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[Dyin]

ya, right..lol....he doesn't quite have the same enthusiasm I have for all the little steps I make and point out ENDLESSLY:p but he's pleased...he wanted me to do a graphite drawing of him and this actually was going to be the pose I planned to use...

[jgarroyo]

i love your use of violets/purples in this piece as also in 'desolation'. it looks very natural. i would'nt have the balls to do so. can i say balls here? should i say nuts or cojones? anyway, when i start doing color again, maybe i'll grow some and get creative. well done.
Do you use any pencil lines, or did you go straight into the pastels? adios.

[Dyin]

thanks for looking, you know I always value your opinion...no sketch except for the OPs...dove right in...quite messily at first lol! And I wouldn't have the balls to do this either:D but how else could I use my new sticks??? balls and sticks...sounds like a game of pool to me...anyways, I quite honestly didn't think I could get flesh this way, been quite the eye opener....the main thing I learned...and jocelynart's thread on skin made me think of this...was to start with extremely light values and then build them up...a lot more room to adjust things then....the next piece I do will have green undertones...totally new for me and will be interesting to see how that goes too...I really think this is 'necessity is the mother of invention'...I had to stack a ton of books on my Sennelier box so I wouldn't cheat lol!!! And I have to admit that having the 5 different tones give a lot more latitude on shades...it would be extrememly hard with only one shade of each color...

[artbabe21]

Originally posted by Dyin
...dove right in...quite messily at first lol!

I quite honestly didn't think I could get flesh this way, been quite the eye opener....the main thing I learned...and jocelynart's thread on skin made me think of this...was to start with extremely light values and then build them up

Wow....and wow....am so impressed Sue! This is wonderful! To work a whole different way w/different colors...what a challenge!
Good for you....now ya have to do it on good paper!! lol...:)

[Dyin]

Cathleen...you're always so nice with your comments! I laugh at the blue rims and awful forehead, even knowing they won't stay like that but am pleased with where the rest is going...I can't wait to try it on good paper...it's amazing...I have no bleed thru on this cheap sketch paper!!! These are sooo dif than the others...the finished parts look more like soft pastel than oil paint...the other brands do have more of the oil paint glow...but it's still not quite as sparkly as the softs...also need to learn to use the white better...these are quite transparent and you can't get a solid white on top of another color...so either i need to keep those areas clean or maybe try to use a more opaque white at the end...I mostly like not using pencils or tools...just me and my Holbeins and that cheap paper lol!
See part of why I'm so slow???? Yakking here instead of working!! tsk tsk....

[Katherine J]

Terrific, Sue. I too thought right away that I hoped it wasn't just in a sketch book!! It's going to be very worth framing. I'm amazed at the colours you've used and how they all work so well.

Katherine

[Dyin]

thanks Katherine...I'm amazed too lol!!! I'm thinking the next will be better though...clearer and crisper since I've seen that either spots or diagonal lines can go over without totally obliberating the under color...really made a diff having the variation in tones...so actually 5 colors become 25 tones and the variations of those tones is...geesh...I'm no mathmetician lol!!! but a LOT!:p

[Stoy Jones]

I finally get to see some of your work :) It looks to me like he's coming to life, right out of the page. Can't wait to see how this turns out.

Stoy

[Dyin]

Thanks, Stoy! I'm notoriously slow so hope it isn't too long a wait lol!

[blissfullyunaware]

Dyin, In awe here! This is a great start. Never used OP's and not much good at portraits... so tips here ... sorry .... but it doesn't look like you need much help there either! Chopper (spouse?) is looking pretty cool in his purples. I took a class, a looong time ago on skin under-tones, color charting people (sort of a makeup/clothing type of thing) and how the under-tones are not what you would normally think of as skin tones - yellow, green, purple, blue... , I would imagine that the same theory would apply here too! You have a real instinct for this portrait stuff from what I've seen and all I can say is Bravo :clap: :clap:, keep sharing! Thanks.... Sharon

[Dyin]

thanks Sharon, that class sounds really interesting!!! Seems like the more you do something, the more you see...I used to paint at night and have got a full spectrum on my wish list now...not only do the colors change that you are using...but our own skin tones change with different lighting...really appreciate your kind words...

[tonii]

Wow Dyin,

You are a wonderful portrait painter (I checked out all your works last week), & this is no exception. I thought the smoothness of the skin is only achievable with soft pastels, I guessed wrong...

His face just glows & luminates. The colours are wonderful!!

Like you, I don't paint at nigths as I feel that the colours are totally different when obeserving in the day.

well done....;)

Tanya
:)

[Dyin]

thanks Tanya...it's really cool to hear that...I've struggled for years to figure out skin and this has been interesting and fun...thanks for your kind words...

[Stoy Jones]

Originally posted by Dyin
Thanks, Stoy! I'm notoriously slow so hope it isn't too long a wait lol!

Aw...I'm not 'goin' anywhere :D I'll wait around for this one :)

Stoy

[Dyin]

lol...cool...I should have a copy of your tiny head and put it over my studio....I'll think, boy, better get going on this...STOY IS WAITING!!!! thanks....:)

[soap]

Ok Sue, now I must admit I am an impatient woman.....sorry, was born that way :D.......so I wanna see more!! Mor updates, a pic of those holbeins ( I thought Caran D'ache was the best within OP-land?) etc. This is great stuff, as we (ok, ok, I) learn from this immensely. Indeed skin colours can be made with anything, anything at all. I must do this sometime as well. Remeber the limited palette project? That was the same idea. But to tell you the truth, I often just grab my skin colours sticks (Rembrandts) and only liven them up a bit with different colours. Yellow for the warmer parts, green and blue for the cooler shadowy parts, violet for the greyish parts etc. I am still amazed at the wonderful effect you OP's can achieve with OP and am keeping an eye out for a good (cheap offer) set of OP's for me to experiment with. I am sure I'll fail miserably, but you make it look so yummie!
Now, get on with it, as I want to see more!

:D :D

[Dyin]

Sophie...I have a pic of those Holbeins...put in a daily thread...hold on...yep, got em still...

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Sep-2003/19147-Holbeins.jpg

yummy, huh???? course they're not so clean right now lol! That's what I did with my Senneliers...started with basic flesh and added color...this is a whole nuther pot o beans!!!! But FUN!

You just fly through your portraits and they always look yummy (must be the word for the day lol)...so I'll try to jump on it for you and Stoy!!!

[Dark_Shades]

you know when you are onto a winner, when the nose starts coming out of the page.......
I always love the little highlights on them :)

[MarciaJane]

What a super portrait Dyin!!.. I have used oil pastels (only limited) in the past and gave up on them because I couldn't get the effect that I wanted with them... but looking at your pic makes me want to try them again. Don't they look lovely in your box there too.... makes me wanna rush out and buy some !!

Once again... a lovely painting..... nice one !!!!

[Dyin]

thanks Dawn and Marcia! oooh Marcia...could see these doing a LOVELY surf....and Dawn I love those little highlights too...like a fresh scrubbed face!

[sundiver]

Niiiice, very niiice!
I love my Holbeins, too. I bought all mine individually. Since they're not wrapped or numbered I don't know the names of the colors. Last purchase I got me some ochres, browns and oranges.
And I break them all in half (actually I sawed them with a steak knife) so I can use them sideways if I want. Your box of new ones looks so pristine and inviting! :)

[butterfly]

This is so awesome (to use my kids words) ... terrific is one I would also use ....

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
roni/butterfly

[Dyin]

thanks roni! Sundiver...yikes! They are about $2.25 each here...here's a pic of the color chart...

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Sep-2003/19147-Holbein_color_chart.jpg

can't read it at this size...so top to bottom, left to right...and remember 1 is darkest, 5 is lightest so like to order black it would be 32A-1, white would be 32A-5...

Hansa yellow-5A, Chrome yellow-5B, antique yellow-5C, antique orange-10A, Vermillion-10B, scarlet-13A, permanent red-13C, carmine-13E, crimson-13F,

rose pink-13G, purple-20A, magenta-20B, blue violet-20C, red violet-20F, oxide yellow-26A, Raw Umber-26B, raw sienna-26C, English red-26D

vandyke brown-26E, Burnt sienna-26 F, venetian red-26G, red ochre-26H, burnt umber-26K, indian red-26L, non-color no.1-32A, non-color no.2-32B, warm gray-32C

cobalt blue-38B, ultramarine blue-38C, prussian blue, 38D, indigo-38E, cerulean blue-38F, ultramarine light-38G, sky blue-38J, emerald green-45A, permanent green-45B

turquoise green-45C, deep green-45D, olive green-45E, oxide of olive-45F, may green-45G,focus green-45H, viridian-45J, foggy green-45K, sap green-45L

whew! nice thing about these is they look just like the color chart...and the chart says they sell in 5 shade spectrum too...but neither Dick Blick or Dakota art pastel advertises them that way...needs research...

[meowmeow]

Oops! Almost missed this...and then since I waas late I figured I'd get to see a progress report...but no...where is it!
But...then it will be well worth waiting for! Or are you going to just do it on good paper...your portraits are sooo good. A pleasre to see....


Sandy

[Greeble]

Man those look gorgeous, now I want some holbeins!



Jen

[Dyin]

lol...Sandy, you know I'm terribly slow...I work a little at a time so the changes are minute...vacation officially is over tomorrow so hope to jump a little further a little quicker then...I may do this some other time on good paper, but I have to jump on a portrait for my friend's Christmas gift soon...
Jen...terribly addictive, this stuff...eh?

[Mo.]

Looking very nice Sue! Mush! Mush!... get a move on!:D

Those Holbeins... I'm so jealous!:D

Mo.:)

[Dyin]

mush, mush???? lol! actually I have been working on it...working the reflections on one side of the glasses...started with really light values and keep working up more contrast on the skin too...so don't really have any more new areas to show except the one glass added...and losing my light now :mad: I really do get lost trying to translate light and color sometimes and it seems it's more about that than the actual likeness...but that's what makes it so fun....:D

[nougat]

Great portrait WIP Sue!!

And wonderful ops....I'm Jealous!! They must be the most unpopular medium in Malta cos the 'best' I can find are 'panda' and the colours are very limited....sigh

nadine

[Dyin]

thanks, Nadine...hard to be somewhere you can't get stuff or pay a fortune for shipping...used to be that way in Alaska...before you could order online..I found a toll free number for Holbein..they're in Vermont and am calling today to find out distributors that sell the 5 range of color sets...I'll ask if they have a website or a list of distributors and put it in the OP sticky if I have any luck...

[meowmeow]

I work a little at a time so the changes are minute...

I was just teasing....the progress may be slow but well worth it. You take your time and do a good job. That makes sense.
We ust like to give you a hard time! :D

Sandy

[Dyin]

lol...Sandy, think you OWE me a hard time...:D want to get a bit more done today and hopefully post an update later....

[Dyin]

was going to wait til I got the chin and whiskers a bit further along but then figured this would show a mid-stage....so far I have pale Hansa yellow as a base coat, then dark cobalt, then medium crimson and a light red violet over that....now I'll work dark and light from this base color and work the whiskers for depth...the glass was a whole lot of fun...a bit frustrating at first, trying to come up with the right colors and tones, but really fascinating to do....I like the 'painterly' effect it has...this is also so much fun doing it with the straight OPs rather than using a bunch of tools or needing turp...after I have some color laid down I can use a razor edge to touch up a top layer or lift off a boo boo when I oops, drop a pastel on the nose lol! TWICE so far!!!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Sep-2003/19147-chopglassWIP.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Sep-2003/19147-chopglassWIP_cu.jpg

[artbabe21]

awesome looking girl------slow is good---you have a great touch w/these pastels....glad you found something you can work with so well and I am so jealous.....LOL :D

[Dyin]

sheesh...the girl is on her way to gay Paree and she's jealous??? lol! Maybe you should give these Holbein OPs a try...;) thanks for stopping by....and the lovely compliment!

[Stoy Jones]

Originally posted by Dyin
was going to wait til I got the chin and whiskers a bit further along but then figured this would show a mid-stage....


Quite nice, glad you decided to post further wips so we can watch you work! Specks are looking great..

Stoy

[Dyin]

thanks, Stoy...I hate the in-between stages...what an ugly chin lol!!! But it does show where you can go with things...

[JamieWG]

Sue, how did you get those very thin whiskers with the oil pastels? Did you scratch them out?

Jamie

[Dyin]

the center ones under the nose...I scratched and then layered and did this several times and then the ops would pick up the higher ridges to highlight...the rest are all just op strokes, but will be working on the chin whiskers more after I get the skin in...

[blissfullyunaware]

Dyin.... way cool (am I too old to say that?) :clap: This is going to be great, thanks so much for walking us through. I love the detail you are pulling out in this work. The model looks like a very agreeable fellow... :D. I love the whiskers and the eye glasses... :clap: Thanks for sharing this with us and keep posting updates, (I've been patiently waiting... :rolleyes: LOL)

Sharon

[Greeble]

What Sharon said!

Thanks for posting these WIPs

Does glassine help preserve ops? I mean, if you start these things in sketchbooks....



Jen

[Dyin]

thanks, Sharon and Jen...you are both so enthusiastic that you make things fun...I'll probably stick this one in a small frame, but for OPs...plain ol wax paper works beautifully for preserving...in a loose leaf I wrap around and tape to the back...for others I make a sleeve for them out of the wax paper...it's a great way to keep them clean from dust and you can stack quite a few before it gets too heavy...hope to pop back on it this morning...was going to be laundry day, but durn, they're shutting off water to work on the lines today...:D

[PablosDream]

:clap: What a beuatiful portrait! I love the way the color looks from close up like shapes and smudges and then from far away it turns into a person. Like the inside of his glasses very up close look like abstract art, but look at it back some and it's just where everything needs to be. It's beautiful, Dyn'.

[Dyin]

thanks PD! I'm kind of tickled with that part too...it's what I've always admired about good oil paintings

...check out Scott Burdick's oil WIP in the archives
http://www.wetcanvas.com/ArtSchool/Oils/RuthPortrait/

...I've always worked too smooth to get that effect and now the OPs give me a little texture to work with...and I'm getting a little braver...still tend to blend more than I'll like, but hoping familiarity will give me more confidence...

[PablosDream]

Mmmm.... I love the girl's hair in that painting, that's exactly what i'm talking about! Up close is that really hair? Far away a beautiful head of hair, i love it! Simple pleasures, cheap thrills.

In my pastel drawings i blend everything to the point it's almost dull. I'm getting blend happy. I've got to start limiting myself because i'm taking all excitment out of the pictures. Maybe i should do some where i don't let myself blend at all? :eek:

[Dyin]

ha...try what I'm doing with this....pick the same color palette more or less...with lights to darks in them...then go play...don't make it a life or death thing....take your time and explore and hide the rest of your pastels so you're not tempted to cheat...and yes, try not to blend...it may be more extreme color changes than you are used to, but the eye mixes colors when they are placed next to each other like that...another idea after you try it with diagonal strokes is to take a cotton swab and dab pure color in a pointalistic style and then maybe do the same using the point of a pastel....you'll learn about color and optical blending this way...we all try to get perfect results and pay more attention to that some times than just getting down and dirty...I started this just to do a tiny swatch of skin!

[Nicolart]

This portrait is awesome...:clap:

[Dyin]

thanks, Nicole! Ha...you should have seen it this morning! I forgot that this mixing skin tones is still experimental for me and decided to take pics in progress...got a little enthusiastic and went too dark and heavy lol...so had to take the razor to it and start over...now I'm paying attention to what I'm doing and will have to save those sort of pics til I get a little experience under my belt! Right now it's back about where my last progress pic was...so maybe an update tomorrow....

[bnoonan]

HI Sue,

Late to comment on this but I have to say I'm duly impressed. Great job and the colors are working out beautifully.

Will you do more? Is this Chopper? B

[Dyin]

yeah....posting an update this afternoon, slow couple of days but progress....yep, it's Chopper:D, he's due home for lunch any sec. Was wondering what your take would be as you use such lovely color combos in your work. Nice to see ya here, Barb...and thanks!

[Dyin]

I really appreciate all of you following along with me, and giving me such great encouragement. I want the newer artists to realize that I am always learning too. This may not look like I've done much, but about 4 hours has gone into the chin and moustache area, including reworking the lip. Not including the time I spent before having to scrape back yesterday, when I messed up. Remember this is an experiment in skin tones and using the Holbeins only, so I am not doing any touch up work with colored pencils on the hair, which makes it thicker than normal. Hair is definately not my strong point! I'm always trying to figure out how to give depth to things...what works to make certain areas recede or lay under other areas, how to pop things out in other areas. I wanted to give the chin a 5 o'clock shadow, so experimented with that, may adjust some when the rest of the moustache goes on. The skin tone on his cheeks and nose was almost too delicate and wanted to roughen him up just a bit. Tomorrow I'll go back and fix the forehead and hopefully do the other side of his glasses...again, thanks for following along with me!
hmmmm...had more shadow by the whiskers on his skin, need to go back in and darken a touch more....

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Sep-2003/19147-Chop_chin_wip.jpg

[MsLilypond]

Brought the popcorn, pulling up a chair, falling off chair in awe.

[E-J]

Sue, thanks for sharing your progress ... I always think these WIP threads are very brave. Those Holbeins look EDIBLE and I love the effects you achieve.

[Dyin]

MsLilypond, you make me feel good! Trust me, I'm as full of insecurities as the next guy! (Can I have some popcorn???)
E-J...they don't taste near as good as they look :D

[artbabe21]

comin' along beautifully, your photos are great....what kind of camera? :)

[Dyin]

trying to post regular updates...I work on it every day, just slow going...I spent about 3 hours today...reworking the forehead. These are my first wrinkles and so I'm learning those too. So far I'm working light to dark on my skin tones and I took pics to show how I've been approaching it. I don't know if this is how others do it, I'm just fumbling my way through here. Treating the wrinkles like I would fabric folds, on a much narrower scale. Since I wasn't serious when I started this, my forehead was quite a bit off, trying to compensate for that now...scraped off the first attempt I made at skin tone and restarted...here's 4 pics of the steps so far...first is with the poor skin tone I first tried.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Sep-2003/19147-forehead_0.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Sep-2003/19147-forehead_1.jpg
first I put the lightest yellow in to keep the highlights bright and used red for the wrinkle lines

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Sep-2003/19147-forehead_2.jpg
now I went in and used the 4th darkest value of scarlet to show the darker areas...I use the pastel straight and then blot with a q-tip where I don't want it to be quite so dark. I smudged the wrinkle lines a bit too...

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Sep-2003/19147-forehead_3.jpg
here I add the middle shade of cobalt blue...then I go over it with the red qtip to smudge it and rework a couple little lines of blue here and there. I've used a bit of blue in the lightly shaded areas, then blotted and added the lightest to middle range of red violet over it to make it a subtle shadow...also reworking some of the red and yellow to make it start to blend on the left side. The highlights go right up to the edge of the bottom of the wrinkle, the red is deep at the top of the wrinkle and then lightens a bit as it moves away.

Now I'll just keep working the areas together, probably going back and deepening some areas of shadow, until I'm happy, or reasonably so. Like I said, I don't know if this is the RIGHT way to do skin, it's just how I'm figuring out how to approach it and I know a lot of us have been afraid to do wrinkles, which is a shame, because they add so much character to faces.

[blissfullyunaware]

Holey Smoke..... You are on fire here, 4 pic's in one day :p :D :evil: Your instruction on this is great, as well as the actual product being fabulous! Very taken by this, makes me want to join in the fun! But I'm going to sit on the OP sidelines for now but I'm bookmarking this for future references! thanks for sharing!

Sharon

[Dyin]

Cathleen...it's a Sony Cyber-shot 3.2 mega pixels...also says it's a mpegmovieVX... depends on the lighting how well it does...you can see the dif in the 4 I just posted...the first is in full sun, the other 3 inside...too close and it's yellow, further away the violets really come out...in the original you can see each color distinctly and they do a lot of optical blending...but they come out great...I take them huge and then adjust size so I don't lose details.
Sharon...thanks for your feedback! I never know if I'm really doing things right or if it's helpful to others. I just know how much I learn from other member WIPS and think this sharing technique thing we do at WC is the coolest thing since fins on Cadillacs!!!:D

[Dyin]

Not much on this one, but I've been messing with it for two days...lots of kicking back the tones and trying not to lose the optical blending effect...I forgot to add the lightest shade of terra cotta to the skin blend and could not figure out why it was so orangey! Anyways, now it fits in better with the rest of the face...have a busy couple days coming up so not sure what if any I'll get done, but I'm at the point where I'm hooked again and eager to see more done...

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Sep-2003/19147-forehead_4.jpg

[meowmeow]

I don't know that there is a "right" way....but in any case your way seems to be working. THis is quite a challenge and I for one am impressed that you are tking it on. The glasses and the wrinkles...and you are diong a great job. And buzzing right along I might add! :D
Thanks for diong this Sue...it's a lot of working taking the photos and posting all these. But we all get to learn from it.

SAndy

[Dyin]

thanks, Sandy...just like I learn from your plein aires!!!

[Cindy Aspden]

Sue, BRILLIANT as usual!!! The wrinkles came out fantastic and I am so loving your choice for skin tones! BEAUTIFUL!! Great moustache too!! Umm. . . does it twirl in a dastardly way too? (teehee) So glad you got hooked again! Did I mention I loved the composition too!

:clap: :clap: :clap:

cindy

[Dyin]

funny, Cin...yep, he has the REAL thing...my pasted one keeps falling off when I twist....SNORK!!! The comp is SO an accident since I wasn't going to do this, just play with the skin a little...but I like it too and may use it again...the next portrait I'm doing has a green undertone...will be a first too...will I NEVER learn??? someday I'll have no new colors to try...wellllll, unless I get the FULL set of Holbeins!!!! :D

[CoolArtiste]

Hey Dyin, this is really yummy. I like the way you blended the nose and everything. Do you have a web page of your other paintings? I looked at Holbein oil pastels in a catalog and I didn't see any dark colors. Isn't this a limitation?

[Dyin]

thanks for looking Cool Artiste (love the moniker)...I need to get a webpage together...right now my husband and I share a homepage and I don't really have a good place for the artwork, he just got his own puter though, as soon as he gets a webplace set up I get to start creating mine...unless someone knows a good site for a well hit on free webpage site lol...
as to the darks, the number one and two shades are SUPER dark...and strongly pigmented. I've had to be really careful in color application on this and really tone down the darks...it just looks like they're lighter in the sale pics because there are so many lighter shades. When I first started this I thought I'd have to go in with the Senneliers but won't have to...they start out fairly transparent on the light colors, but turn opaque with several layers, even get complete coverage over the dark layers with white with a couple layers. Even the light colors are super intense in their darkest value.

[Dark_Shades]

couldnt comment before because of computer probs...... but so glad to be watching this...... its coming along great Sue..... lol, had to laugh at cindy......... its the teeny little pieces that make it for me..... like the highlight on the nose, and love the little reflection glimmer on the rim of the lens..... perfect!!

.... I dont know how the greens will work with Oil Pastels.... but if it works anything like in other pastels, you are going to have one helluva shock.... in a delightful way...... when I first heard about it, thought are these people mad!!!..... ..... I tried it with my Gandalf..... (and you know how that turned out) ....so this was a BIG turning point for me and I am sure it will be with you......

Green really makes skin ZING!!! ...... and the strange thing is..... its not often you can see that it has been used, which makes it amazing again

[Dyin]

hey Dawn...thanks for the tips on the greens, now I'm excited to try!!! Thought you'd be out toolin around in that new car!!! Thanks for saying that about the little things...they always float my boat too lol!

[Dark_Shades]

went out for a spin :D ...... but Im rather under the weather.... think its a bit more than just a cold :( ..... got Mon-Tues off work to play with my car

[Mo.]

Looking so good Sue....Chop's not a bad looking guy is he:D

The whiskers and the rim of the glasses are my favourite points so far.

So now you are fully into these Holbeins and judging by your posts I think it's true to say you are in love with them..... what I want to know is ......is it worth buying the sets of 5 tones or would buying say the darkest and lightest of each coulour would suffice?..... I'm seriously thinking of buying some, but have to be a bit penny pinching you see.

Mo.:)

[Dyin]

I like having the 5 tones but you could get away with 1, 3, 5...there's a huge dif between light and dark and if you want to do flesh tones, you'd want at least the 3...or else you'd have to double the work to get a mid-tone, but if you didn't mind that you could do it with two...I haven't tried to get a set of 5 yet, all my suppliers sell them single and in sets. Holbein told me they were sure Dakota would special order them, but I don't know if I'd get a price break over buying them singley...The colors I mentioned are pretty good for starters, they do mix well in the darkest tones and can get good browns from it...there's plenty of greens you can mix too. I'd add white...have not touched black but played with the dark grays a bit. I'm so glad you like the moustache! I tried keeping it mass versus individual hairs and thought it went pretty well...the glasses are a miracle...why oh WHY did I use the dark blue on them first lol!!!! :rolleyes:

[blissfullyunaware]

Its amazing what you are accomplishing here! :clap: :clap: This is so informative... I've got to crack the color barrier (and the composition barrier). Oh Heck :rolleyes: guess I'm never going to progress... I guess I've said it before but I'll say it again, thanks for sharing this with us, I'm learning tons...really! Sharon

[Dyin]

Sharon...you WILL get beyond the point you're at with color and compostition...you just keep workin it...and one day all the little things you've worked on will fall right in place...look at how much you learned on your Cambria CA coastline WIP...WC has helped ME so much...so just stick around and you'll learn something from every person that contributes here...and thanks for saying you learned from this...I learned along with you on YOURS!

[Dyin]

today was a tough one...husband decided to be productive and so that meant every 5 minutes I had to get up and find something for him, still pleased that I got some done on this. One disadvantage of jumping around like I do is that it's hard to remember the exact layering sequence I used before. These glasses are difficult because they are the kind that change in different light and they have a purple tint, therefore they are clear when light is behind them and very dark in the shadow areas, except where reflective light is bouncing. I'm not quite done with them and still have work to do on the rim but feel they are getting there. Skin is going easier, a little more confident now. The eyebrow hairs are a layering of blue, purple and burnt sienna...a lot nicer combo than using black which I feel would totally jar the piece...anyways, comments and critiques welcome...

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Sep-2003/19147-chop_second_glass.jpg

[artbabe21]

lookin' SOOOOOOOOOOO good....still can't believe this is oil pastel! woooooooohooo! Those wiskers, those glasses...you ROCK girl!! :D

[Mo.]

Super work Sue.. those glasses are called Polo something or other I think... anyway you are doing a grand job, they can't be easy to do...... love those wrinkles excellent job there.... keep it coming..... think you'll make it before Christmas? ..:D:evil: :angel:

Mo.:)

[Dark_Shades]

ohhhh goodie... updates :)
love those whiskers...... do they tickle :D ....... I would just check the arm of the glasses on the viewers right..... think its a bit to high

....... coming along great Sue

(PS...... doesnt Mo look wonderful tonight in her new feathers..... didnt recognise her at first lol......(new TinyHead))

[Dyin]

hey, thanks Cathleen, Mo and Dawn...ok Mo...just wait til YOUR next slow one, tryin to get this done so I can do WATER...and Dawn...haven't put the arm in yet...that's just a general area there...they'll come down, but thanks, I'll watch it...naw...doesn't tickle anymore...Cathleen...what a week til gay Paree??? ooooh!!!

[artbabe21]

Originally posted by Dyin
...Cathleen...what a week til gay Paree??? ooooh!!!

I've been packed SO long...I feel like I am 'all dressed up with no place to go'...tired of waiting...anticipation can be a good thing but this is ridiculous!

hi Dawn & Mo....miss you gals! :D

[Striver]

Hi Simply Awesome
That you for sharing your WIP and comments, do appreciate the time log. I always think I am taking to long on everything.
TA
Les

[Cindy Aspden]

Oh Sue!!! I hope you (or Chop, for that matter) don't mind, but I have to use the word pretty! He is pretty! :evil: Well done Sue!

cindy

[Dyin]

Thanks Les...hard to get much slower than I am lol!
Cindy...I agree...no comment from Chop...brawhahahaha!!!

Dawn...good catch on the glasses arm...I was a bit off...got carried away putting shadow in lol...love extra eyes watching out for me!

[BTDogMom]

Um....WOWIE!!! :clap: :clap: :clap: I'd like some more, please :D

[Dyin]

Thanks BT...by the way, love your tinyhead...hoping to post an update later today...

[bnoonan]

Sue,

This is coming along quite nicely. Love the progress - slow but sure and lots of colors and great form.

We're all watching... Barb

[Dyin]

Thanks Barb...been trying to take notes from yours:D

[Dark_Shades]

Originally posted by artbabe21


I've been packed SO long...I feel like I am 'all dressed up with no place to go'...tired of waiting...anticipation can be a good thing but this is ridiculous!

hi Dawn & Mo....miss you gals! :D

You going away again!!! :confused: .... Im still waiting for you to come back from the last trip :D

good ta C ya artbabe *** waving

[Dyin]

Was hoping to be a little closer to done but I had to make a lot of adjustments to the skin tones as the ref pic I'm using is really washed out on that side, so while he was home for lunch I took advantage of having a live (grumpy) model and think I've got it pretty close to the values I want now. Next step is the moustache and then I'll go back and adjust the skin to work with it and tone down the purple eye socket area...and finish the glasses...so close I can taste it, but too tired to keep working today...plus the maid hasn't shown up since Saturday, she's gonna get fired if she doesn't do some catching up! :rolleyes:


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Sep-2003/19147-chop_cheek.jpg

[Striver]

Hi
Feel lucky your partner will model, mine is not interested at all. In fact if she catches me sketching her or suspects it, I have to flee.
Not interested at all, not really interested in my art for sure.
Les

[Dyin]

Well, he won't actually sit for me for any time period, but he'll turn his head a certain way so I can get the light right...we've been together 23 years, so I know his face pretty well. He's not really into art either, unless it's the lines of a Harley, lol! But over the years he's gone from indifferent to support...so there's hope for your partner. Meanwhile it's a good thing to have WC for support, people like fugitive, who'll take the time to teach you the ins and outs of things...and I know I appreciate your support for following along on this!

[Luvy]

I have to go and read all of this. I just looked at the pictures *S* This is great. My hubby has an average boring face so far maybe the older he gets that will change LOL Well we've been married 35 years. It's boring to me HEE HEE I love this face so much character., and you're doing a great job of it too. Now back to the beginning of this thread to read.

[Dyin]

Luvy, you have the best username ever, because you ARE a Luv!
:D

[blissfullyunaware]

OOOOH Dyin... He's be-u-ti-ful ... tell him I said so! He reminds me so much of my best friend's husband (biker guy)... I give him grief all the time :D :evil: My husband LOVES motorcycles too, he wanted a Harley but he settled for a Suzuki... okay I know its not close but its a 1974 750 2 stroke... its fassst. (and it was cheaper than a Harley :D). But hubby still has his eye on the Road King classic (will keep me in the poor house LOL). Anywho... You're portrait is coming along wonderfully! :clap: :clap: Keep those updates coming! You're going to have me getting those oil pastels yet! :D Take care! Sharon

[Dyin]

lol...Sharon, subliminal message here....long as your face is in the wind (buy oil pastels) that's all that matters (use oil pastels)but the Road King is royalty indeed...might as well go to the poorhouse in style (oil pastel GOOD) I have sort of prettied him up here, haven't I? (OP OP OP) Guess it's just his 'good guy' coming through...(NEED OIL PASTELS) :D

[Kathryn Wilson]

Hee, hee Dyin - I think Chopper has some fans! He is looking gorgeous :evil: :angel:

[Dyin]

lol...he ALWAYS gets fans lol! Was hoping to finish today, but neck is out and have a killer headache, so have to wait it out...eager to get this done!

[bnoonan]

Feel better Sue and take care of yourself. You want to be healthy for the long run of painting ahead of you!

B

[Rieko]

Awesome work!!! Wow, it has been an eye-opening lesson for me! The skin-tone and his expression are "magnifique"!

Waiting for the finish with patience :)

[Dyin]

Thanks Barb and Rieko...I'm trying to wait patiently but this is the best part, when I can see I'm so close...and the hardest to wait out! oooh...love the word..."magnifique"!

[MKathleen]

Sue--without looking at the other comments other than your last relpy--loved the grumpy part lol....
You have a wonder way with those pastels can't wait to see more of your terrific work.:clap:
Kathy

[bin28]

It seems to me that you are doing a lot of layering, so the tooth of the paper must be filled up by now !

It happens to me all the time, because I want to achieve a Painterly-Effect, I tend to do loads of layers. I solve the problem of the tooth over-saturation by using fixatives alot, I'm almost done with a 300ml can !

So are you doing your initial layers with pastel pencils or one of them super hard pastels ? I have read that initial layers should be done with the HARD stuff.

[Dyin]

Thanks, Kathy! Feel a little better today, so hoping to jump back on this tomorrow.

Bin28, the oil pastels work very differently than the soft pastels you use. When I used velour for my Sara painting I had a little trouble with the tooth filling up...I think actually the oil flattened the nap of the velour.
This, amazingly, is on cheap, thin sketchpaper...and it's not loading up at all! Usually I start with a light pencil sketch that I fix and it gets covered. I will occasionally use pastel pencils for details, but have not on this one.
On soft pastels it does help to do the softest layers last, though a good medium hardness like Rembrandt is fine for the first layers. Certain papers hold the pastel better than others and using fixative is good on lower layers to give tooth and even though it darkens the values can be freshened up.
Layering is a great way to build tone...I had heard you couldn't layer with oil pastels and am pleased there are ways to do it!

[nougat]

Hi Sue this is looking great!!!!

sorry you had a beastly head - hope its better now!!

our fone line has been down for 4 days so no www and no WC!!- it's good to be back!!!

nadine

[jaisjewels]

This is an amazing portrait! I have been doing portraits for a while now and have never tried the skin without using at least some of my peach toned pastels. Your portrait has inspired me to work with a limited color selection and see what I can come up with. I love seeing this as a WIP - it's amazing!

[Dyin]

Nadine, I wondered where you'd gone off to! A bit better...going to get back on it some this morning and see how it goes!
Michele...thanks! It really has been an eye opener and I think you'll have fun trying. Your macaw looks good as your tinyhead!

[blissfullyunaware]

Dyin .. so sorry to hear you have been feeling under the weather! :crying: My pain usually comes with the change in the weather too. But glad to hear you are doing better now!!

Uh, sort of got the feeling that you were trying to tell me something :confused: :D.... A good set of OP's are on my Christmas wish list ... (Holbin's sound like the ones to have!) Looking forward to your update! Sharon

[Dyin]

Sharon...whatever gave you the idea I was trying to tell you something? :evil: :D I'm glad you are going to try the Holbeins! And sorry to hear that you get pain with the weather changes...:crying:

[cyberia]

Hi Sue and all!!

sorry to have been away ....not in thoughts tho - but it never rains but it pours... my pc has suffered a major crash and is out of order. I've managed to borrow my husbands but only for a while:mad:
enjoying this wip and greatly admiring your patience with the painstaking method you use so well.


nadine

[cyberia]

Just noticed... I'm coming through with my hubby's user name (he sometimes lurks in the photgraphy forum)... but it's me NOUGAT!!!!

:D

nadine

[Dyin]

Hi Nadine!!! Must be fun to go incognito! I'm still taking a couple days to get it together...I tried to rush it, and it set me back. Sorry you are having the puter troubles...and have missed you around here! Maybe, possibly, you are working on something too??? :D

[blissfullyunaware]

Hmmmmm.... waiting.... tap, tap, tap.......... :D :evil:

[Striver]

Is there a differrence in Holbeins to others, apart from possibly colors?
Les

[Dyin]

Hey, sorry...have not been able to paint lately or spend much time on the puter, so haven't been able to post and won't for awhile yet, I probably will not continue with this practice piece...it's enough so I know I can do the skin tones just fine...but really appreciate everyone having followed along on this. Hopefully I'll be back to normal soon and be able to post again.
Les...they are different...not as oily as the other brands, in fact, they never bled through the sketch paper to the back side, whereas the other brands will leave an oil stain all the way through. They are easier to apply in layers, more like soft pastels than the others...they come in a square stick rather than round and they have no paper on them...so if you get them it's a good idea to do a color chart, although mine came with one, I still put the actually color next to the printed one...and I don't find I need tools to work with these, though I would use a cotton swab for transitions between colors.

[Striver]

Ta for info on difference, I have a pack of Fabers unused, so I will have a go with them for a laugh. I am allergic to fumes so perhaps the non odurless turps. Have to be extremely careful when people use oils near me. Have to leave or I am done for.
Enjoy

[Marc Sabatella]

Originally posted by Striver
Is there a differrence in Holbeins to others, apart from possibly colors?
Les

Of the brands that are widely available, Holbein and Sennelier are the ones ones that are really considered "artist quality" in terms of permanence, texture, and color strength. That is, most of the others you see are not going to last, the texture is usually too hard, and the colors are pretty weak and waxy. I should qualify that - there are other fine brands as well, but they tend to more obscure and more expensive. It is the Cray-Pas (except perhaps Specialist), Van Gogh, Loew-Cornell, etc that I am really comparing to here.

Even among the artist quality brands, the thing that sets Holbein apart in my eyes is the range of colors - they are the only major manufacturer to produce different values of each color like traditional soft pastels. The others seem to be under the impression that you can makes tints with white like you can with oil. I find that while white *can* be used to a limited extent in this way, it really isn't satisfactory. That said, Sennelier does have a wide enough variety of different values in their color range that a full set of these will do pretty well, if you can afford it. Both of these brands are significantly softer than most of the competition, which makes a big difference in handling - these handle more like soft pastel whereas other brands handle more like hard pastel.

[guilliame]

Hey Dying,been following this one on and off,this is excellent work you are doing here:clap: i love the skin tones and the glasses are just great looking forward to next hopefully finished post,btw dh wasn't 1 of the 2 guys from Z T TOP i think they were called altho they had long beards then:D

[Striver]

Thank you Mark for info
Les

[pampe]

stunning to watch

you make me want to try YET another medium.....AAARGGGH

beautiful work:clap:

[artbabe21]

Hi Sue and all.....back this week, trip was far too long and after painting in Monet's gardens I should have gone home...LOL...it was so fabulous and I am no plein aire painter...we had the place to ourselves...wonderful serenity.

Love this piece of yours and you have me very much wanting to try these Holbeins....where will the best price be and I forget what size box you got...:)

Hope you don't mind, am going to give you a little Parisian local color from the gardens, now remember this was late season...Oct 13th & when we flew out of Paris on the 28th it was 0* so the gardens were toast... :crying: But there were actually roses still there!!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Nov-2003/7568-dscn2188-mg_painting_1_smaller.jpg

[Dyin]

Cathleen!!! That's BEAUTTIFUL!!! I'm so glad you got to be there before it froze up! Have you posted any of your plein aire paintings????
I got my Holbeins from Dakota Art Pastel... the order number for the 50 assorted in the wood box is HBOASST50 and they cost $125.00.
Their smallest set is 15 for $43 but they aren't the full tonal range sets like the box of 50. You can order individual colors for $2.30 each too...are you having problems with your allergies still???
I keep baby wipes in my work area, so instant cleanup...
Glad to see you back!

[artbabe21]

Sue...no my sensitivities seem to have disappeared & are no problem w/oil even using OMS for clean up. Thought it would be a good time to try oil pastels...I've also started sketching and doing watercolor washes (since I don't have a clue about how to watercolor but it's sure fun)anyway........

I did two 9x12 panels with good starts on them from the gardens so til I get to feeling better(came home sick from freezing flea market & being out walking every day in cold temps or the crowds on the metro--who knows) I won't be finishing them or posting. I also badly sprained my ankle my 2nd day by falling down the ancient spiral staircase at the hotel...but I didn't miss a day out. That actually helped keep the swelling down!! LOL

OK, why are these far better than other oil pastels you've used??? :) Good to be back...missed everyone!!

[Dyin]

geez louise, girl! Sprains and colds too! Sure hope you feel better soon...looking forward to seeing your stuff...
ok..prefer because not as oily, closer in application to soft pastels and has the 5 values for each color. I don't have to use tools to apply, have found no need for turps. Also what you see is what you get...at least on the colors I have...on my others a lot of times the value is no where near what the stick looks like.
Now hurry up and get better!!!

[artbabe21]

Originally posted by Dyin
Now hurry up and get better!!!

so I CAN play soon w/art stuff...you make these sound really good
and perhaps there will be a Christmas sale on them...I'm sure other places carry them too? :)

[Dyin]

they do, but this is the only place I saw the 50 set, you don't get the full range on anything less...

[Stoy Jones]

Originally posted by Dyin

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Sep-2003/19147-chop_cheek.jpg [/B]

Hey Dyin, this thread is getting monstrous, but found your update here and it is coming along quite nicely. Lookin' good!

Stoy

[Dyin]

I know, kind of embarrassing....I'm not doing anymore to this piece either, it wasn't on good paper and it wasn't holding up at the end and this was enough to show me I could do the skin tones...but I truly appreciate everyone following along on this and hope it was helpful seeing what the Holbeins could do...

[artbabe21]

Originally posted by Dyin
they do, but this is the only place I saw the 50 set, you don't get the full range on anything less...

okey doke........I'll save my $$

thanks!!:D

[Marc Sabatella]

Originally posted by Dyin
they do, but this is the only place I saw the 50 set, you don't get the full range on anything less...

Most decent art stores carry Holbein oil pastels open stock for in the neighborhood of $3/stick. The set of 50 is certainly a better deal, but you can probably get by with fewer colors if you pick them out yourself based on what you know you tend to use.

As I mentioned earlier, I agree with the basic assessment of these pastels - easily the best oil pastel I've used, both because of the texture and because they are the only brand to provide a full value range of each color. I think when people try oil pastels and dislike them, it is because they didn't try Holbein.

[Dyin]

I totally agree, Marc, nothing beats the Holbeins....I saw your plein aires...are they oil or OPs? Do you have any OPs to post? Would love to see! I really hope someday to get the whole set of Holbeins...:D

[Marc Sabatella]

Originally posted by Dyin
I totally agree, Marc, nothing beats the Holbeins....I saw your plein aires...are they oil or OPs? Do you have any OPs to post?

I recall having posted some oils in the Plein Aire forum and some soft pastels here, but probably no oil pastels. So here is one. I haven't actually done any in about six months, but this was done around this time last year - on Thanksgiving morning, in fact, while visiting relatives in Montrose, Colorado. It's 9x12 on musuem board:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Nov-2003/29333-thanksgiving.JPG

As for getting a whole set of Holbein's, go for it if you can afford it! The nice thing about Holbein, though, is that there is enough value range in each color that you don't *need* the whole set to do some useful painting. I've got three values each of about 15 colors, which is less than a quarter of the full range, but that's all I need.

[artbox]

This is cool!!!:cool: I often go to an alternate color palette for skin tones.. variety is the spice of life.. and I don't think anyone could be slower than my husband in doing a work of art... So don't worry about speed...its looking great!! Aren't new toys fun!? and nothing like a new toy to spur on the creativity!! looking forward to the completion of this painting.. :D

[halthepainter]

Sandra, in case you hadn't noticed, the post you responded to was written in 2003.

[LakeSailor]

you've got the shapes right!

here is color theory in a nutshell
http://maggiemaggio.com/pdf/Instinctive.pdf