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Cyntada
07-31-2013, 12:01 AM
Just ordered a stash of enough Twinrocker rough to make my next sketchbook. :eek: Tried a sample recently and loved it, washes did amazing things while the same pigment combo looked dead flat on my beloved Arches rough. I feel crazy spending $$$ on handmade paper for a sketchbook, but told myself that I live in these books, practice there, try things out, make messes and dream. Why shouldn't it be the paper I want?

Usually I tear down 9" x 12" pieces from full sheets, and fold these in half to make 6"x9" signatures. 16 of these (sewn in pairs) makes a 64 page book that will last me six to nine months or so. (I started the most recent one in October and it's really full, even going back and filling in odd spaces and unfinished pages and the like.) Twinrocker was out of 22"x30" in Rough, and the 9"x12" pieces are way too expensive even with the 25% off coupon they sent with the sample. (I wanted those feather deckle edges though!! Maybe someday.) Fran pointed out that they did have some other larger sheets in Rough, so I thought about it and (duh!) bought enough 18"x24" pieces for the entire book plus a couple left over for studio paintings. Ended up being a bit cheaper than I had planned, plus no scraps, since I can just quarter the 18"x24" sheets and make my book. :clap:

So, am I nuts, or just painting like a millionaire?

Undergoose
07-31-2013, 12:57 AM
Not nuts at all. Based on what I've been reading on WC from various people, I might be doing myself a disfavor for discounting the concept of a personal sketch journal, and if I do jump on the wagon with the rest of you diary-doodlers, I'm going to want the best materials, because it's going to more than just a tool, which is what my current ones are used as.

While sorting and packing everything I own to move out here, I came across tons of my 25+ year old sketchbooks, and it dawned on me that it would have been nice to read a few lines about my day to go with my daily doodling back then. Now that I'm moved and getting settled in, I'm forgetting some details about the cross country trip, and it would have been nice to have a sketch journal along with me to jot things down with my little thumbnails.

As far as handmade paper, just this week I've been able to play with a bunch for the first time. I had NO idea there'd be that big of difference. The handmade stuff is amazing, and it's a joy to work with, because it feels like I'm stacking my best work on top of someone else's craftsmanship instead of something just pooped out by a machine. (Yes, I know it takes a craftsman to run the machine as well, but it's not the same.)

Now you've got me eyeballing my inventory. :p

Neeman
07-31-2013, 01:14 AM
Yes you are nuts

But that is is only place to be
Could you imagine for one terrible moment what it would be like to be sane???
NO!!

You know what they say
Youth is wasted on the young
Insanity is wasted on the mad

That being said.......

I take 1/4 sheets of different paper, and fold them into 1/4s
So I have a folded 1/4 sheet piece of paper in 1/16th size
They are stiff enough to not need a drawing board
And they fold out to a four painting 'collage'
Which gives me a very interesting series of painting

Yorky
07-31-2013, 02:35 AM
No, you are not nuts, you found a paper you like and are putting it to good use.

I think I'll have a go too.

Doug

pjartwc
07-31-2013, 04:49 AM
Sounds like a good thing to me - Always pays to do something you enjoy if you can!

CharM
07-31-2013, 08:23 AM
*Nodding* sagely... mmm hmmm... nuttier than a fruitcake! :angel:

Ah, but what's the alternative?

Sanity brings with it practical frugality. You could buy much less expensive sheets. In fact, while you're at it, buy cheaper paints and brushes. There.

Now what?... paint with this new kit. Ok... TRY to paint with this new kit. You hate your results. Your work isn't as vibrant as you envisioned. You set it aside! :eek:

You're an Artist and your tools of the trade define who you are, what you do and how you do it!

So... paint with abandon... paint like a millionaire... sanity is overrated. :)

olliewood0702
07-31-2013, 08:30 AM
"So... paint with abandon... paint like a millionaire... sanity is overrated."
^^What Char said so well ^^:thumbsup: :D

Brindle
07-31-2013, 08:33 AM
I look at it like this. You can't learn how to prepare gourmet meals without gourmet ingredients. Same thing with art. If what you learn about how paper and paint react in a sketchbook doesn't involve the same paper you're actually going to be using for paintings, how are you going to apply what you've learned with any consistency?

That's not nuts, that's just common sense!

P.S. I can rationalize ANY art supplies purchase :angel:

WthrLady
07-31-2013, 08:48 AM
More of a legume........

virgil carter
07-31-2013, 08:53 AM
''... You can't learn how to prepare gourmet meals without gourmet ingredients..."

Wish I'd said that!

One of my other favorite sayings from another sage person (not me): "Why bring a sandwich to a banquet"--sort of the same meaning.

Wonder why the metaphors all deal with food...???

Sling paint,
Virgil

Cyntada
07-31-2013, 08:59 AM
Ah, thank you everyone, I feel much better now. Suspicions confirmed. ;)

Now, I just gotta try out this thing called "patience" until the paper arrives. Due in later this week, I think. Then make the actual book, although some of the paper will get put to use immediately. On what, I don't know. But I'll think of something!

Irishman
07-31-2013, 12:22 PM
All I want to know is where can I buy it over this side !!!

StewGold
07-31-2013, 01:54 PM
Course you are. So are the rest of us. Fun isn't it!!

I use a Big Mac and fries as a price point. It's about 4/$6 here and lasts 10 minutes. That's a decent sheet of paper, and that easily lasts 4-6 hours. And lower in Cholesterol. 20 Cigarettes costs more than twice that. If I smoked that's probably not a days worth.

It's all wonderful papers, but I don't know any European suppliers. Next trip to America I'm going to ask the airline how I can ship it back flat.

It's not a dear thing , esp if it lasts you so long as a sketch book.

My mother always said "Your as mad as a brush" No idea why brushes are mad, I do know about hatters, but think how many brushes you have to be mad with.

Enjoy the anticipation, Leslie. ( of the paper; not the madness )

claude j greengrass
07-31-2013, 11:52 PM
All I want to know is where can I buy it over this side !!!

I can't help you with twinrockers paper, but can personally Two Rivers (http://www.tworiverspaper.co.uk/) hand made paper. Love it, but just can't afford it on a day to day basis.

...it looks like their website is down.:(

Superturtle
08-01-2013, 10:46 AM
One of my other favorite sayings from another sage person (not me): "Why bring a sandwich to a banquet"--sort of the same meaning.


My husband's version of that is "you can't bring a sandwich to a gunfight", which I suppose is equally true.

virgil carter
08-01-2013, 11:23 AM
Nuts--naah! A little bit paint-crazy--maybe! But such fun!

Sling nuts,
Virgil

Undergoose
08-01-2013, 04:59 PM
My husband's version of that is "you can't bring a sandwich to a gunfight", which I suppose is equally true.

LOL! I thought it was 'a knife to a gunfight'!

I would think a sandwich might come in handy in a gunfight. I bet old Wyatt Earp and Doc Holliday worked up some powerful hungers after a good high-noon showdown.

"Uh...Whhyatt, I don't supposed you have a sandwich a-frittered away in yer saddlebags, do ya?"

"Nope...I done ate it on the way over."

"Damn."

:p

virgil carter
08-01-2013, 06:41 PM
From experience, when it comes to gun fights:


Bigger is better;
If using a little is good, using a whole lot is a way better;


and the ultimate classic:


Give 'em the whole nine yards

Then there's all the Rules of Fire, such as


Fields of fire work both ways;
If the enemy is in sight, so are you

But I digress...

Sling (just) paint,
Virgil

robertsloan2
08-02-2013, 03:59 PM
Paint like a millionaire and you might become one.

Seriously, it's a sensible choice especially with how you did it. You love that paper, you'll paint on it outside the sketchbook. From the moment I started selling any art at all, I realized the best art supplies always pay for themselves.

Don't reserve the best supplies just for salable pieces and settle for what you don't like as much for your personal sketchbook. The more practice you get on this expensive handmade paper you love, the more powerful the paintings you produce for others on it will be and the more used to its qualities you are. This is a brilliant idea.

Better materials perform better and you also get more of a feel for them. You did the right thing there.

Stop and think about other things you enjoy in life. Even if it's just entertainment, compare the best papers to going out to the movies in a theater or to a sports event or anything else that's for fun. The best art supplies are actually a massive bargain in terms of entertainment for the amount of time you enjoy yourself with them versus how much you spend.

Hours of entertainment for dollar amount, think of months of enjoyment versus other forms of entertainment. You can budget-justify the best art supplies that way because you're going to be spending more time painting and afterward, enjoying the paintings and showing off the splendid journal to your friends than you'd spend at a sports game, etc. In terms of sharing it with other people, these journals are a lifetime.

Also think of your family down the generations. Using the best paper in your journals makes them archival and your progress as an artist may be interesting to your great-grandkids or great-grandnephews and nieces. Or just anyone curious about our century, there comes an age when anyone's personal journal is a museum worthy glimpse of their times. By using archival journal materials you give your journal a chance to survive to that age and that even goes beyond yourself.

Nothing against it and everything for it. Skip something more ephemeral like a food treat or movie outing if you're having budget troubles. Making art is much better for reducing stress and enriching life.

robertsloan2
08-02-2013, 04:21 PM
I look at it like this. You can't learn how to prepare gourmet meals without gourmet ingredients. Same thing with art. If what you learn about how paper and paint react in a sketchbook doesn't involve the same paper you're actually going to be using for paintings, how are you going to apply what you've learned with any consistency?

That's not nuts, that's just common sense!

P.S. I can rationalize ANY art supplies purchase :angel:

I can too, and not just rationalize. It proved true from the moment I started selling any art at all. Good art supplies pay for themselves. The best ones do. They also pay for my using the best for anything I feel like doing to improve and grow as an artist.

What sells is usually based on subject and local market and personal connections. But the level of supporting extreme purchases like handmade papers isn't that hard to achieve. If supporting it by selling art on eBay, be sure to mention in the description that you used the expensive best materials and give a little explanation of why this gives the piece durability and quality. It impresses buyers who don't know you, they like to know they're getting the best.

It's like putting a bit of shell gold in and telling them that metallic accent is real gold. (the real gold dots from Jerry's Artarama are great. Historically that was called shell gold because goldsmiths would sell fine gold powder to artists who'd mix with gum arabic and treat it like a pigment. They used to keep it in shells, using seashells (mostly small clams or mussels) like half pans or pans for homemade pan watercolors.

I love using it in paintings and a little goes a long way. I bought it on a whim, $35 for this tiny dot but I was thrilled it was real. Every time I use it, I'm reminded of that. Then I found out that buyers shared my feelings and it made paintings with gold accents a lot more special. It took years to get to where I needed to replace it but I've never regretted that extravagance. I was able to pass on my delight at it to hundreds of buyers and friends who got paintings as gifts with being able to say "That's real gold in the border" or "The gold details are actual gold" or "The sparkle in that blue is that it's mixed with real gold."

DaveCrow
08-03-2013, 12:51 PM
Life is too short not to use your favorite art supplies.

Cyntada
08-08-2013, 10:51 PM
Paper arrived yesterday! :thumbsup: Coworkers are getting used to me, the receptionist walked in with the huge flat box and a raised eyebrow, "Art supplies?" Yep! It'll take a few days to get the book made, but I sat in the back of my truck at lunch and quartered one sheet up just to get the feel of it. It's their HA weight ('heavy art") defined as 250lb (ish) or nearly twice as thick as the "light art" 125lb. I've been using 140lb Arches for previous books, so this paper is substantially heavier. I'll probably use one less signature to accommodate, and keep the book about the proportions I like. That will take me from 64 pages to 56, which is fine. I'll get to make a new book a little bit sooner then!

Glad you all let me know I'm not too crazy, and not alone in thinking it's best to paint with supplies one loves. Lots of good things to think about, thanks everyone!

portalhome
08-08-2013, 11:14 PM
Now I want to see the book! I love bookbinding anyway and a hand made, hand written/illustrated one is a special treasure.

CJMonty
08-09-2013, 12:38 AM
Where in Australia is it possible to obtain this TwinRocker Rough?
I use Fabriano Artistico Rough, mainly the 300gm weight but sometimes the 640gm. I love this paper for the texture it helps to give the painting.

Take Care.
Lots of Love Carolynn.:heart: :clap: :thumbsup: :wave: :)

Cyntada
08-10-2013, 08:36 PM
Carolynn: I'm sure Twinrocker would ship to Oz, but expect that the costs would be horrendous for larger sheets. They shipped my 6 sheets of 18"x 24" flat, the box was about 20ish x 28ish and weighed 5lbs. (Very, very well packed, I will add.) You might consider buying a sample, this would be 1 piece each of rough, hot press, and cold press, 8"x10" and it ships in a reinforced envelope. I love rough paper too, and use it almost exclusively at this point. TR has a nicely pebbled and random surface, because the roughness is formed naturally on each individual sheet. Arches rough is fabulous also, but it seems more regular, like they stamp the texture on.

Alice, I'll definitely post the book when it's made. I have it all torn and folded, now I have to decide how to bind it this time. Bookbinding is something I do by the seat of my pants and my techniques would surely horrify anyone who's skilled in that craft! Here's the process for my first bound sketchbook (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1024772). I've since made one more (out of Arches Rough exclusively), and the Twinrocker book is number 3. Cant' wait to get this one ready for painting!