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beltrajm
09-13-2003, 05:21 PM
MY IMAGE(S):
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Critiques/upload_spool/09-13-2003/26943_Somail-by-JMB-Photo-500p.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Critiques/upload_spool/09-13-2003/26943_Somail-by-JMB-500p.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Critiques/upload_spool/09-13-2003/26943_Somail-by-JMB-left-500p.jpg


GENERAL INFORMATION:
Title: Someil - watercolor
Year Created: 2003
Medium: Watercolor
Surface: Watercolor Paper
Dimension: 48 cm x 30 cm
Allow digital alterations?: Yes!

MY COMMENTS:
This watercolor is based on a picture I took in France during past holidays.
Represents my first watercolor without guide, I mean, without following others step-by-step instruction.
I'm sure there're many errors and improvements I can do, but I would like to concentrate the question on the left side, as it looks un-natural and out of place. There are two areas, the house covered with the green ivy, and the boat. See my questions.

MY QUESTIONS FOR THE GROUP:
1 - The house on the left was painted with Yellow ocre, then covered with a watered Green Sap using an sponge. Then a second glaze wiíth sponge again with a consistent (near no water) Green Sap. My conclusion: all volume ahs been lost, resulting on a flat area.

2 - The boat, even not yet finished, seesm quite unrealistic and out of place. Are the colors too bright, or is becasue these colors aren't on any other place of the full picture?

anney
09-13-2003, 05:33 PM
Hello,

I find the boat is well started, it is just looking out of place for the moment because it has not yet a shadow/reflect in the water.

As for the house, I have not been doing watercolor for a long time, but some red over the green would add shadows, and for a next painting I would use drawing gum to protect the parts of wall without ivy and add constrast (ocre / green / green + red = dark green). But honestly your houses are great and I would wait that the rest of the painting is more advanced before doing something).

Anne.

Pure curiosity : Is the photograph from "canal du midi" ?

HRobinson
09-13-2003, 06:36 PM
There's a rising star among us. DJ* could answer your concerns, if only someone could find that magic lamp. Ah, here it is. Rub a dubba dubba.

-Harry

giniaad
09-13-2003, 07:20 PM
water colors are tricky tricky
(and not my medium)
but, I understand the problems in theory

leave the house,
work on the rest
and see where you are


wish I could be of more help

shapes are structurally sound...
the boat is fine in shape...just needs the proper grounding
in colors of water and background

beltrajm
09-13-2003, 07:29 PM
Many thanks for your encouraging comments.
I'll try to add some darker color to the ivy (with red as sugested). The boat is still unfinished, and as suggested, may be with the reflections on the water it will change.

Finally: Yes, it's from the "Canal du midi". We enjoyed 15 days on a boat, last year summer. I took many pictures, and finally I decided to start with this one...

pampe
09-13-2003, 09:34 PM
may I suggest that you also post this in the WATERCOLOR FORUM where you will get comments specific to that medium.....

Pam

mkillough
09-14-2003, 02:02 AM
Originally posted by pampe
may I suggest that you also post this in the WATERCOLOR FORUM where you will get comments specific to that medium.....

Pam

I don't think that Pam is implying that this was not the place for you to post this piece; she means that if you want help with the ivy on the house someone in the watercolor forum might know how to fix it.
But Pam knows the medium better than most as can be seen from her latest:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=131737

in this critique forum.

Everthing Anne says sounds right to me. I think the boat is beautiful and I love the bridge and building on our right. The reflection of the boat in the water would make a big difference. Nice water, too.
:)

capricorne
09-14-2003, 09:27 AM
1 - The house on the left was painted with Yellow ocre, then covered with a watered Green Sap using an sponge. Then a second glaze wiíth sponge again with a consistent (near no water) Green Sap. My conclusion: all volume ahs been lost, resulting on a flat area.

Yes, I think you better don't do glazing put add the colors wet-in-wet with different density.

2 - The boat, even not yet finished, seems quite unrealistic and out of place. Are the colors too bright, or is becasue these colors aren't on any other place of the full picture?

Yes, I think the values of the boot in relation with the water and the building is not correct. On different places, the boot merges with his surrounding, this is not the case in your painting where every edge is so sharp..
I should try to connect area's of the same value and only separate values of a different value.
ciao
Jan

beltrajm
09-14-2003, 11:46 AM
I finished (almost) the painting. Tryed to bring some shades on the ivy with red+green as suggested (thanks anney). Also included boat reflections (as good as I can?!).

Capricorne, you may be right (sure you're) by using a wet-on-wet technique for the ivy, but I'm not good enough for this (just see my trees at the back). I'm much better (or at least feel much confident), when doing small/detailed painting. I always see the paint transitions on the wet-on-wet as a non-natural. Even I like very much others painting with this technique, and love the finish touching, I don't feel confident enough.... I always look at details...

Last, (and sure not least), many thanks to all for your comments. Pam, next time I'll try to get help also from the watercolor forum... Do you think is still worth to post there???

Deb Leger
09-14-2003, 11:47 AM
For a first watercolour without guide, I think you did an excellent job! :clap:

This is my first time posting here in the critique forum and I'm still not very good with Paint Shop Pro, so please bear with me. I hope this gets the point across though. :D

<<<1 - The house on the left was painted with Yellow ocre, then covered with a watered Green Sap using an sponge. Then a second glaze wiíth sponge again with a consistent (near no water) Green Sap. My conclusion: all volume ahs been lost, resulting on a flat area.>>>

The volume hasn't been lost, just hidden a bit! Perhaps if more of the building underneath showed through, it wouldn't look so heavy.

To get rid of that flat area, all that you might need to try is to have several different values in there. You could try lifting out some of the green, perhaps over towards the farthest left side. See in your original photo where there was no ivy? You could lift a bit of that out. I wouldn't try scrubbing it out - if it were me, I'd just lightly dampen it with a fine mist, then carefully press a crumpled up kleenex to that tiny area. (The crumpled-upness of the kleenex will add a bit of texture as well) Don't overdue the pressure, just repeat if necessary. Just to bring it down to the yellow ochre. Even if there's still some pale sap left in there, that'd be okay.

In the edited pic, some of the same yellow ochre is put down in the bottom area, just to kind of cut up some of the sap green.

The red roof. See how ivy grows up onto it in the photo? I think some of the green would look good there, too. (To kind of cut up that rectangular shape.) A bit of it was brought up on the roof in the edited pic.

I think another reason you found it looked flat is that there were no shadows in there. Even though there isn't too many shadows in the original pic, shadows would really punch it up. (Remember, where there is light, there is shadow and where there is shadow, there is light.) Decide where you want your source of light coming from and work from there for your shadows.


<<<2 - The boat, even not yet finished, seesm quite unrealistic and out of place. Are the colors too bright, or is becasue these colors aren't on any other place of the full picture?>>>

Boats usually do look out of place until you get their reflections in there. That'll kind of settle them into the water. :) The colours aren't too bright for the left side, but on the right side (the side the light is coming from) you could maybe lighten it a bit. Doing that would make the opposite side look darker, thereby giving you a shadow area there.

In the original pic, there are colours in the boat not used anywhere else, but you tied yours in well to me, using the red of the roof and the green of the plants! Just watch that brilliant blue in the original pic if you decide to use it.

Your water is not finished yet? You're going to make it darker? Bring some of the painting's values down into the water to tie it all in?

Hope this wasn't too long (I can get carried away easily) and hope it helps.

Keep up the great work!! And I have to repeat, for your first watercolour without guide or instruction, you're doing a fine job!!

Deb

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Sep-2003/11775-Somail-by-JMB_edited.jpg

beltrajm
09-14-2003, 11:47 AM
Just forgot the paint....

beltrajm
09-14-2003, 12:27 PM
Deb, wow!!!! this is a lot of good sugestions...
I like very much your idea to have the ivy on the roof, and also lifting some of the green (I'm not sure the green cover will allow, as the tinting is relativelly high...), but sure I'will implement the ivy over the roof.

Just watch that brilliant blue in the original pic if you decide to use it.

I finally added some Cobalt blue, hope it doesn't get too out of place.

Note: after this watercolor I decided to get ride of the Cerulean Blue. I'll stay on the Ultramar (the one I like the most) and Cobalt. I never get right skies with Cerulena, but also the tinting is too high, so no way to clean or open whites.

anney
09-15-2003, 07:06 AM
"Making Color Sing" by Jeanne Dobbie

In her palette, she is mostly using Series 4 from W&N...