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View Full Version : Head studies after Bouguereau


ianos dan
04-26-2013, 02:53 PM
This days l tried to make a color study per day ,about 5 hour each,
l used an alla prima technique ,to understand better Bouguereau's technique of painting,and in general the Academical method.
The last one, l made the drawing in red pencil ,on a prepared canvas ,toned with different colors ,to see the effect over the painting layers.:clap:http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Apr-2013/1165823-cor.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Apr-2013/1165823-IMG501.jpgsorry for the last image , l will post a better one next dayshttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Apr-2013/1165823-26042012272.jpg

derek123
04-28-2013, 05:40 AM
your first image is great. you know how he juxtaposed grayed green versus pink. i plan on doing something similar in my light key paintings. my drawings have improved so i think i can paint again without embarassment. you draw well. i think you should try not doing a copy and do from a model with the same technique and see how it turns out. unless you are not ready to do that. but nice job.

ianos dan
04-28-2013, 04:34 PM
Derek 123: l'm drawing form masters because l feel l can always learn from them.it's not about drawing in itself ,it's about learning their techniques of painting.
l'm drawing since l was a child , l was a concept artist , l had to draw well from my mind ,so ,yeah ,l will post some personal drawings ,made from a life model ,or from my mind .
Again ,l'm to in loved by old masters ,and that has made ​​its mark on me :)
Thanks again for advices :)

ianos dan
04-28-2013, 06:12 PM
The scanned version http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Apr-2013/1165823-g.jpg

highwaykind
04-29-2013, 04:35 AM
Wow, really nice! Wish I could do this, I love Bouguereau!!

Where did you find information on the techniques he used? I'm still having a lot of trouble with skin tones - never get it right the first go and have to add 10 layers to make it look a bit better/more like skin.

ianos dan
04-29-2013, 05:10 AM
Hello highwaykind ! Thank for your comment :).You could find information about his technique of painting on ArtRenewal ,that's the name of the site.Search Alphonse William Bouguereau ,and it's there a title :Bouguereau at work.
you can find there details about his underpainting ,because he was an academic painter.
Also ,you can find some clues about his technique by searching on internet unfinished head studies .
l found a very useful for flesh color ,only 4 or 5 colors ,that are;
Titanium White
Yellow Ocher
Vermillion
Burnt umber
burnt sienna
Ultramarine blue ,or Prussian blue
Lake madder deep ,or Carmine,any type of cold red

ianos dan
04-29-2013, 05:12 AM
l 've scanned once more the painting ,the first one is to dark an reddish .
This one is closer to the original ;:cool:http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Apr-2013/1165823-c.jpg

highwaykind
05-01-2013, 05:06 AM
Really well done! *sigh* man, I've got so much to learn still!

I'm using W&N Artisan Oils,

I have
Titanium White
Yellow Ocher
Burnt umber
burnt sienna
Ultramarine blue ,or Prussian blue (have both)

But not
Vermillion
Lake madder deep ,or Carmine,any type of cold red

I do have Permanent Crimson, and permanent rose, and the Cad Red light is pretty cool I think. Are those good equivalents?

(I have just started on my own Bouguereau copy - because it never hurts to aim high and overestimate your own capabilities ;D - will start a new thread and any and all tips and critique will be welcome! )

ianos dan
05-01-2013, 07:47 AM
Yes highwaykind, the colors you have are enough to make flesh color.Cad Red light it sufficient for warm hues ,also permanent rose and permanent Crimson for lips and ears ,where the blood vessels are closer to the skin.
Very curious to see your approach on Bouguereau ,for me was kind of tricky :)

Nathalie Chavieve
05-01-2013, 11:27 AM
Knowing that is only a study and if you have finished it or not, but it looks a little bit flat to me, especially in the shade area of the face. I would also define more her chin, nose and forehead.

ianos dan
05-01-2013, 12:35 PM
You're right Nathalie ! this is just a sketch ,and probably will stay like this ,l've just wanted to study the color ,but it's a good critique :)

ianos dan
05-01-2013, 12:48 PM
Derek.l'm working now on a big canvas ,it's not a copy ',it's my own painting,and l will post it when it's finished.In this 4 or 5 years ,l've tried to make my own paintings ,but being a concept artist ,l didn't had the time to dedicate to painting,but now l can say l do only traditional art.
l'm drawing almost every day in this period :)

derek123
05-01-2013, 12:51 PM
Bouguereau has stronger lights and darks than yours. your drawing is good but your chiaroscuro is weak. combine my high contrast of tone below, with your drawing, and the mix is where it should be. the reason your heads look fake, is because the contrast is not strong enough. no offense, this is a constructive critique

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-May-2013/106565-111.jpg

ignore the green versus pink beauty of him for a while, Bouguereau has beauty in the tones and drawing. notice the contrast in this one he did. the color is secondary and must be subordinate if not ignored to drawing.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-May-2013/106565-girk.jpg

derek123
05-01-2013, 01:04 PM
the more contrast, the less color, == more realism. the more color, the less contrast== less realism. fakeness is in the beauty of the color field. the beauty is in the tones, the tones and the planes. not the color. the color blinds the painter. see my video on youtube where i wear yellow sunglasses to desaturate the color. this will make you see tone and ignore color. color is like some kind of lure to the painter, to destroy his tone and realism.

derek123
05-01-2013, 01:07 PM
put up a painting that is not a study please, anyway, squint your eyes hard at your painted heads, and then squint your eyes hard at Bouguereau's. see how much contrast he has! he is deceptive.

derek123
05-01-2013, 01:23 PM
sorry to spam i keep getting ideas. my most important idea to you and everyone that eventually reads this is PAINT IN BLACK AND WHITE ONLY until it looks awesome. then when it looks awesome, start adding color over that. when you are a master you can do both at the same time. i don't know if i am there yet, but both at the same time is so stressful that i would rather do monochrome first, color last over it. that is probably going to be my permanent technique, straying away from odd nerdrum, which is painstakingly slow, frustrating, difficult, weird, and downright painful and long long long to produce

birdhs
05-01-2013, 01:24 PM
ianos dan: Thanx so much for sharing your works with us.
I also am now studying techniques from the artists I have had recommended to me.
Who they are is not important to anyone but me.
Each of learn in our own way, and the way you are progressing inspires me.

I certainly would never post any of my images in your thread, very bad form and all that.
When I am ready, I will post my own thread, and hope you will send constructive advice. I also have so much to learn.

Thanks for sharing these with us,

greggo

derek123
05-01-2013, 01:27 PM
his paintings are going to be way awesome because of what i have just done, whether right or wrong

Nathalie Chavieve
05-01-2013, 03:24 PM
birdhs: I think Derek just want to steal the show.

derek123: I don't understand, why you have to spoil every discusion you participate in ?

birdhs
05-01-2013, 05:10 PM
If someone says things you feel are not productive, or for any other reason, all of us have the option to "ignore" them.

Just click on that person's avatar and on their home page you will find an option called "ignore".


just a thought

greggo

and I am sure I am someone's "ignore" list also.

armak
05-01-2013, 05:34 PM
Ianos dan, I have started "Man with a Red Tuban" because of your inspired Van Eyke copy. I think you are gifted and very disciplined. Kudos on the Bougereau!

ianos dan
05-01-2013, 05:54 PM
Thank you guys for support and advices:).This night someone took my phone ,l was in town with friends and l was very very angry .
Tomorrow l will answer to everyone by turn ,because everyone here had given lots of advices ,and it will be a shame for me not to answer.
Far away most interesting thread l've ever had :)

derek123
05-02-2013, 03:13 AM
nevermind. anyway i was not saying his work was unproductive, he draws better than i do. Is that saying he is unproductive when i say his contrast needs to be stronger and such and such critiques? (unless he intentionally left out the contrast) the problem with the people on this site is they want an ego massage, that is why everyone is always wondering what the answer is. every man for himself when all every man does is say how great the thing is. i got better by odd nerdrum students saying i sucked, over and over again, emailing me "you suck" and stuff like that, and when i went here, i just got "not bad". i got mad, and got better. my drawing still needs a lot of work, but i personally do not get any constructive ideas to improve when people are saying how this and that is so great. but i apologize for mass critiquing every single post on the page that was wrong. i have exam finals and i took it out on the artists work. sorry

edit: actually, now that i remember how painful it was to be negatively critiqued by nerdrum students, publicly too, i don't think i will critique anyone ever again unless they ask me for it. sorry about that. unwanted critiques are almost like insults, at least that is how i felt about it when it was done to me. paint on!!

edit 2; I am officially never critiquing anyone again ever, on anything, unless they ask me for it. people are sensitive about their art creations, and so am i. egos are at stake, because everyone wants to be great or admired, i sometimes think that people care more about being admired than they do making art. lol, especially famous abstract artists.

AllisonR
05-02-2013, 04:01 AM
ianos dan - lovely portraits. Your drawing and painting skills are superb; I think because you are "copying" but not really copying - you have moved on to thinking about all the green and pink over grey flesh tones and how the colors work together and. It shows in confident brush strokes.

Personally I prefer the 1st painting, it has more interest. The second one is a bit neutral and therefore flat. But that really depends on what the studies are for. I think the first ones style will work beautifully in a more classic scene, more Bouguereau scene. The first one could fit better in a more modern scene. Thanks for sharing.

When someone says things that continually are not productive, or for any other reason, all of us have the option to "ignore" them.

Just click on that person's avatar and on their home page you will find an option called "ignore".

Eventually everyone will have done that. and without an audience/victim, eventually the bully will wander away to another website,....

just a thought

greggo

and I am sure I am someone's "ignore" list also.

Thank you, great advice. Done.

maryinasia
05-02-2013, 04:49 AM
beautiful!

Sarah Edgecumbe
05-02-2013, 05:58 AM
Interesting thread,

I too am starting some studies on this artist.

Curious. Which"vermillion" did you use. Or rather what brand do you recommend.

Love your efforts. Sarah

ianos dan
05-02-2013, 07:19 AM
derek123: some people took this critiques too personally (in a bad way),and therefore the improvement is much slower.That's because they don't see critique ,they see the "attack" to their art..not good:).
l personally ,am l glad to hear critique ,because of the nature of the job l had for few years (concept artist),and there you had to hear lots of critique about your quality as an artist,drawing ,color,imagination ,etc.
So ,when l hear well-intentioned advices ,l fell like a veil that falls ,and my eyes are seeing thing and mistakes l never saw before.

ianos dan
05-02-2013, 07:23 AM
AllisonR ,thank you !yes ,l do not copy for the sake of copying ,l'm not selling this ,l make this kind of studies because l fell my color is weak.
Yes ,it depends also on the image you are copying ,because Bouguereau never had strong contrasts ,but the from was incredible,the volumes ,perfectly achieved,the color balance ,beyond painting :).

ianos dan
05-02-2013, 07:25 AM
maryinasia ,thank you ,appreciate your interest and your time spent in seeing my work:)

ianos dan
05-02-2013, 07:26 AM
Sarah ,l use Red Vermillion from Louvre :).
it's from red family,very non opaque :))),but helpful for flesh color ,l think .

ianos dan
05-02-2013, 08:24 AM
armak : l have made 2 copies after Van Eyck's "Man with red turban".one of them was made on a wood panel ,very small ,and it was made when l was about 20 years old ,unfortunately l don't have photo of it.Second one was made after a year and l will try to find the photo ,don't know where it is now:).
what l have here is a drawing a made,about 7 years ago.
l will post the drawing in the "Copy after Van Eyck" thread .
Thank you !

ianos dan
05-02-2013, 08:54 AM
birdhs ,just do those copies and drawings !l give only constructive advices ,l am very glad to give suggestions and practical advices ,or explicative drawings if a have the time. Nobody here is perfect ,everyone has it's stronger or weak points (artistically speaking).

Jon
05-02-2013, 11:51 AM
Hello, Folks! :)

Remember we are all are free to bypass any post we may feel is not relevant to our approach or our work style. As artists we are aware there are various opinions on how to better achieve a certain goal and we can be open to them or simply let them pass by us.
Thank you for your cooperation and if you have any questions or concerns regarding any issues, please feel free to PM me at any time.

Now back to the thread topic. . .

Jon
WC Administrator

Dana Design
05-02-2013, 12:20 PM
This might help those in doubt about giving advice. How to give a critique (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=341323)

ianos dan
05-02-2013, 02:14 PM
Thank you Dana Design ,this is very helpful :).

Vasilios Kats
05-16-2013, 04:19 PM
Ianos Dan the first portrait it's simply Marvelous!
the last one i think that is little flat!maybe some lighting up at cheeks and jaw.
I like your work a lot! keep going!

ianos dan
07-07-2014, 09:27 AM
Thanks Vasilios !
l think l'll just let it go! l will try to improve on my new work,as much as l can .
Really hard ,even to put your hands on a drawing tool ,when you see this master,....
Cheers!

sfumato1002
12-16-2014, 10:41 AM
nevermind. anyway i was not saying his work was unproductive, he draws better than i do. Is that saying he is unproductive when i say his contrast needs to be stronger and such and such critiques? (unless he intentionally left out the contrast) the problem with the people on this site is they want an ego massage, that is why everyone is always wondering what the answer is. every man for himself when all every man does is say how great the thing is. i got better by odd nerdrum students saying i sucked, over and over again, emailing me "you suck" and stuff like that, and when i went here, i just got "not bad". i got mad, and got better. my drawing still needs a lot of work, but i personally do not get any constructive ideas to improve when people are saying how this and that is so great. but i apologize for mass critiquing every single post on the page that was wrong. i have exam finals and i took it out on the artists work. sorry

edit: actually, now that i remember how painful it was to be negatively critiqued by nerdrum students, publicly too, i don't think i will critique anyone ever again unless they ask me for it. sorry about that. unwanted critiques are almost like insults, at least that is how i felt about it when it was done to me. paint on!!

edit 2; I am officially never critiquing anyone again ever, on anything, unless they ask me for it. people are sensitive about their art creations, and so am i. egos are at stake, because everyone wants to be great or admired, i sometimes think that people care more about being admired than they do making art. lol, especially famous abstract artists.

Hello derek123, I don't know if you will get this message, but I think your critique was very good and it helped me see the errors in my paintings. I stumbled upon this thread on google looking for bouguereau and you are spot on with the advice you gave. Like you said, some people have ego...but don't let that stop you from giving your opinion...because it has helped me...so if you can help one person...then is better than never helping anyone. Anyway, thanks again for the advice here. I think contrast of light and shadow is key...but like you said, sometimes thinking of color, form and light and shadow is overwhelming...so it is good to practice and take notes...which I did with your advice here. Anyway, I hope you are still paininting and thanks again for giving your solid advice.

melfice_
12-19-2014, 03:07 AM
Bouguereau has stronger lights and darks than yours. your drawing is good but your chiaroscuro is weak. combine my high contrast of tone below, with your drawing, and the mix is where it should be. the reason your heads look fake, is because the contrast is not strong enough. no offense, this is a constructive critique

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-May-2013/106565-111.jpg

ignore the green versus pink beauty of him for a while, Bouguereau has beauty in the tones and drawing. notice the contrast in this one he did. the color is secondary and must be subordinate if not ignored to drawing.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-May-2013/106565-girk.jpg



you're always criticizing others, but your paintings and drawings have nothing to show.

ianos dan
01-15-2015, 06:24 PM
Thanks for the critique ,l really miss this thread ,and l really want to continue doing some copies ,at least studies ...
Bouguereau is the man!