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kunoichi
09-08-2003, 11:30 AM
Recently, I have gotten the idea to start using gesso to raise parts of the painting to add depth...does anyone know of any good techniques for acheiving this?

katz
09-08-2003, 11:47 AM
I like to use a painting knife to apply thick paint mixed with gel.
You can achieve some depth and texture with it. There are different kinds of gel, extra thick would work the best for depth.
Katz

talkingbanana
09-08-2003, 03:53 PM
I've used gesso to create texture before - just scraping it across the canvas, putting it on thick and dragging combs through it, that kind of thing. Very abstract, it's a lot of fun.

You really can't get a lot of deep texture with gesso, though; it won't raise it much, and putting the stuff on too thick doesn't seem to be the greatest idea.

Try modeling paste. I've never used it, but I've heard about it and the effects it gives. I'm pretty sure it can get some depth, just use it on masonite or something like that rather than stretched canvas or paper - something rigid.

jimb
09-08-2003, 04:03 PM
Try thickening up your gesso with marble dust.

YLCIA
09-08-2003, 04:19 PM
You can buy textured gel with blended fibers in it by Liquitex. I use it.

Julia

maverick
09-10-2003, 12:51 AM
Julia touched on one type of textured gel, but there are several kinds. I've used different grades of sand gel and even made up my own, which is more fun for a DIY person like me. I just got a big tub of gel medium and a bag of construction sand. Mix some of it together and you can brush it on or trowel it on like cement. I used it on a really large canvas without any problems. Really, you can mix whatever you like into the gel.

ginatec
09-10-2003, 12:00 PM
Marble dust is good mixed with Gesso or you can use fine sand and throw that at the wet Gesso. Tissues can be layed on wet gesso as well...this can get some really good effects.

Gina

timelady
09-10-2003, 05:34 PM
Or mix it with 'whiting'. This is basically chalk dust. Gesso will seal in about anything so you can mix whatever you like in. It should be fine as long as you're just going over it with acrylics (and not oils). Many brands have paste type mediums you could mix in (usually called texture paste or molding paste).

Tina.

dd50
09-10-2003, 09:18 PM
Why couldn't you use 'other' materials to add texture? Like for instance ... dirt .... glue .... salt .... sugar .. etc. ???

Ya think?

Dee

maverick
09-10-2003, 09:43 PM
Why couldn't you use 'other' materials to add texture? Like for instance ... dirt .... glue .... salt .... sugar .. etc. ???

Salt and sugar are natural preservatives, but salt can react with other things and cause corrosion. Maybe it would eat the canvas? It ate my sidewalk.

I've met some artists with brand new Fine Arts degrees and they basically say, let's give the conservators a job to do, and they don't worry too much about their materials or how archival they are.

imlayte
09-10-2003, 10:17 PM
Hi gang, I've hesitated about getting involved here because I wasn't that sure at first you were talking about the physical height of strokes/passages. Silly me.

Twenty years ago when I was doing the desert shows I did use a method of doing just that. I came up with the method and formule on my own. Not that I'm some big hero or something but I wasn't aware of it being done although I'm positive it was. The reason I say that is, what I'm giving you may not be the best but it worked very well for me.

I mixed Liquitex Gel Medium with the Liquitex Modeling Paste. As I remember about 50/50 but there was a bias in one direction. Maybe 60/40 or vice versa. Too much paste, then cracking can occur especially on canvas which I used. Too much gel then more slumping.

I penciled the dwg on the canvas and knifed the mixture on. I made mostly florals as it seemed so appropriate for them. The big goopy petals etc. I used the same mixture on the backgrounds. Loading a big flat knife and holding its plane parallel to the support I just let it skip over the surface leaving interesting abstract shapes. When dry enough I painted on the colors. That was 24 hrs in a dry climate.

I went to the studio and found I still have one piece. Let me know if you'ld like to see it.

Julia, If you have a piece don e with fibers I would like to see it or a section thereof that would show the effect achieved. I've used the gel sand by Liguitex and can share a painting done with it if any one is interested.

Howard

kunoichi
09-15-2003, 11:37 AM
Thank you all for the wonferful ideas!

Howard- I would love to see that painting that you were referring to...:)

shirleyq
09-15-2003, 03:52 PM
I think if you put any of the textures mentioned on too thick on a large canvas that you are asking for sagging. So the solution would be art board of somekind or small canvases.:)

imlayte
09-15-2003, 09:57 PM
OK, Here's the painting using the gel and modeling paste to attain raised portions of the subject matter. This one is 35 inches x 50 inches and is on stretched canvas. The heights here on the flowers range from 1/8th inch to 1/4 inch maybe more. Some flower centers 3/8 inch. You can build them higher if you wait for them to dry.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Sep-2003/21867-DSC00951-1.JPG

The following three are pieces of the painting showing maybe in more detail the heights of the flower edges. I turned the painting so the strong light of the sun would rake across it at an acute angle to show shadows cast by the sun.

Howard

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Sep-2003/21867-DSC00947-1.JPG

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Sep-2003/21867-DSC00946-1.JPG

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Sep-2003/21867-DSC00944-1.JPG

maverick
09-15-2003, 10:18 PM
Here is the largest painting I've ever done, and it has acrylic gel mixed with construction sand applied to the surface. It's built up at the top very thick to give a three dimensional effect to the chunk missing from the cave wall (yellow area). There are lots of globs where I flung the cement-like mixture at the canvas. The size is 36" x 24". I have a wire for hanging attached to the side stretcher bars at the back so the weight is not affecting the top one. The canvas is very tight and has not sagged after almost a year.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Nov-2002/chinese_horse.JPG

kunoichi
09-24-2003, 12:17 PM
Very beautiful artwork:clap:
Howard- I love the technique that you use...I only wish that I could see it in person to get a better view of the depth:D

Shirley- I normally prefer using artboard, so I shouldn't have much to worry about:D

Maverick- I am currently studying the cave paintings of Lascaux in Art History, and your painting certainly has the same feel to it:cool:

Alan Cross
09-24-2003, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by YLCIA
You can buy textured gel with blended fibers in it by Liquitex. I use it.

Julia

Julia is right liquitex makes all kinds I have Reg Gil texture gel, Heavy gel and coarse pumice gel...all very different for textures ...fun to play with....
Alan :)

Rob Lineberger
09-24-2003, 02:21 PM
I just mixed matte medium with fireplace soot to get a light-absorbing black mud. Applied it with a plastic picnic knife. So far it looks great and has lots of texture.

Alan Cross
09-24-2003, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by Rob Lineberger
I just mixed matte medium with fireplace soot to get a light-absorbing black mud. Applied it with a plastic picnic knife. So far it looks great and has lots of texture.

And you get the fireplace all clean lol....reminds me I have to clean mine.....yuk!
Alan :)

ginatec
09-24-2003, 03:32 PM
Howard I love the flowers the way you have built up the 3D effect is fantastic...if this was done in the 80's it has held up real well. Are you going to do more? I hope so.

Nice painting Maverick...like the idea of a cave painting.

Rob...I have a feeling that soot contains something very caustic. So beware!

Gina

Rob Lineberger
09-24-2003, 03:39 PM
Caustic as in "will affect the canvas somehow" or caustic as in "don't breathe it in"? If the former, please explain. If the latter... that ship has sailed. :)

FWIW, I got feedback in a thread here and mixed media forum. The general balance of replies was "go for it".

The fireplace is about 10 teaspoons cleaner now. :)

maverick
09-24-2003, 05:28 PM
Caustic as in "will affect the canvas somehow" or caustic as in "don't breathe it in"?

The caustic (alkaline) substance is lye. You can concentrate the lye by pouring water onto wood ashes to leech it out. It can be mixed with fat to make soap. Lye can eat through your skin if there's enough concentration. Drano is basically lye crystals.

I'm not sure if the soot will cause a problem if it's surrounded by acrylic medium. Also, so-called "acid free" materials are sometimes slightly alkaline to neutralize any acid that may form, so alkaline may not be too bad in small amounts. If I'm not mistaken, even acrylic paint is alkaline when wet and eventually eats away at your brushes.

Just some trivial information that I have crammed in my head :D. You may want to look into it further on your own.

ginatec
09-25-2003, 08:27 AM
Hi Rob

I can't do better than the explanation from Maverick.

Just for interest though...why use soot when you can use inert substances like marbe dust (for free) or sawdust ( for free) or even washed sand?

Gina

imlayte
09-25-2003, 10:38 AM
Kunoichi, Thankyou

Gina, That was one of the styles I did for about 5 years in the early eighties. I burned out and then it was time to move on. One could say "so many styles so little time". smile. Thanks for the compliment.

Howard

paulsam
09-25-2003, 11:07 AM
Regarding mixing in "other" stuff for texture - former Astronaut Alan Bean actually uses lunar dust, tiny bits of insignia from his space suit, and bits of foil from the landing module in his moonscapes, building a very textured base. He adds physical dimension to the base by using footprints from his moon boots, and scraping it with the geology hammer he used on the moon.

See http://www.alanbeangallery.com/ab-artist.html

- Paul

shirleyq
09-25-2003, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by paulsam
Regarding mixing in "other" stuff for texture - former Astronaut Alan Bean actually uses lunar dust, tiny bits of insignia from his space suit, and bits of foil from the landing module in his moonscapes, building a very textured base. He adds physical dimension to the base by using footprints from his moon boots, and scraping it with the geology hammer he used on the moon.

See http://www.alanbeangallery.com/ab-artist.html

- Paul

Paul............great link!:clap:

Keith Russell
09-25-2003, 12:50 PM
Golden and Liquitex both make some pretty wonderful acrylic gels and other media.

I've used Liquitex' 'Heavy Body Gel' and 'Light Modeling Paste', with great results.

I've also used Liquitex' 'Pumice Gel', when you want some really gritty texture.

K

Rob Lineberger
09-25-2003, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by ginatec
Hi Rob

I can't do better than the explanation from Maverick.

Just for interest though...why use soot when you can use inert substances like marbe dust (for free) or sawdust ( for free) or even washed sand?

Gina

More detail can be found in this thread (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=134203), but the short answer is that sand, sawdust, and marble dust are not jet black. I wanted something I could mix and apply over the painting that would drain light like black velvet. Soot (which is just as free as the others) is black, black, black.

kunoichi
09-30-2003, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by Alan Cross


Julia is right liquitex makes all kinds I have Reg Gil texture gel, Heavy gel and coarse pumice gel...all very different for textures ...fun to play with....
Alan :)

I just spotted some sort of medium that Liquitex puts out which contains sand as a texturing agent...I used to do a lot of seascapes in acrylic and I couldn't help but think how interesting it would be to incorporate that into a painting.

kunoichi
09-30-2003, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by paulsam
Regarding mixing in "other" stuff for texture - former Astronaut Alan Bean actually uses lunar dust, tiny bits of insignia from his space suit, and bits of foil from the landing module in his moonscapes, building a very textured base. He adds physical dimension to the base by using footprints from his moon boots, and scraping it with the geology hammer he used on the moon.

See http://www.alanbeangallery.com/ab-artist.html

- Paul

:eek: This link is incredible!!!

Alan Cross
09-30-2003, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by kunoichi


I just spotted some sort of medium that Liquitex puts out which contains sand as a texturing agent...I used to do a lot of seascapes in acrylic and I couldn't help but think how interesting it would be to incorporate that into a painting.

The pumice gel is very gritty and has a very much sandy feel...I put it on with a knife..
Alan :)

imlayte
09-30-2003, 09:18 PM
Somebody mentioned sand. The following I painted using Liquitex Texture Gel- Resin Sand. I mixed it with gesso and painted it on the canvas with a stiff coarse throw away brush. I painted the image on that using bristle brushes. The surface is like very course sand paper so I'm sure it would readily tear up good brushes. I've also mixed the Resin Sand with acrylic varnish.

Howard

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Sep-2003/21867-DSC00967-1.JPG

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Sep-2003/21867-DSC00970-1.JPG

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Sep-2003/21867-DSC00971-1.JPG

Alan Cross
09-30-2003, 09:22 PM
I have used that stuff its hard to paint on yours is great!
Alan :)