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tstellma
12-30-2012, 02:22 PM
Thatīs a painting I will maybe improve but I am cautious.
It is oil on canvas, size 46x70 cm.
At the left you can see my former and deceased art instructor who was a baroque man. Besides painting he liked smoking, eating and drinking, especially schnaps which was "Malwasser" (painting water) for him.
At the right in the bathrobe is the model for nude painting.

What are your thoughts and critiques? Thank you in advance.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Dec-2012/199900-DSCN1857.JPG

D.W. Flint
12-31-2012, 11:03 AM
You have your own, unique style. Can't help but like it. I wouldn't change anything...

evanthomas916
12-31-2012, 01:49 PM
Sorry, can't be of much help but to say it doesn't need anything changed. Good stuff.

tuzigoot
01-01-2013, 06:23 PM
Breaking new ground for the New Year! Sehr gut!

Andrewcody
01-02-2013, 01:40 AM
Hi Ts
Apart from your description of the composition there is nothing in the work to say that the man is an Art Instructor or that the woman is a model.
No art paraphernalia which might give a clue
Regards
Andrew

evanthomas916
01-02-2013, 01:56 AM
Hi Ts
Apart from your description of the composition there...
I advise against offering a critique of a title when comments were requested of the work itself. And it's like critiquing the color of Jimi's guitar at Woodstock. It couldn't be more trivial or besides the point.

tony1
01-02-2013, 09:06 AM
I like this a lot. I don't think you've conveyed the idea of an artist and his model, however.

I do wonder why you haven't outlined the artist's head? I've been working with lines myself (ala Cezanne) and wonder why you chose not to outline the head - not as a criticism, but to further understand what others do with line.

Great palette, and a nice airy feel to this one.

Andrewcody
01-02-2013, 10:24 AM
Read my Crit again Evan, I was commenting on the content of the work.
So before you go off 'advising', perhaps try and read and understand what was being said.
Regards
Andrew

evanthomas916
01-02-2013, 11:15 AM
No need. I got it the first go around. You talked about nothing but the title (well verbal description, but the title is implicitly "Artist and Model") as not relating to subject matter. I judge art by the art, not by what I read. This is a good piece, no? Help the dude out, if you can, and try critiquing the work itself. BTW, what else would the man om the picture be doing? Writing a check? I kinda like that interpretation, but then I'm a little jaded. (:--}>

crafor
01-02-2013, 01:16 PM
Given the opportunity I would have titled it THE MORNING AFTER, due to the bottles and ash tray on the table and the cigarette/cigar in his hand, her state of dress. I see nothing that indicates he is artist or instructor, or that she is a model.
Ella

tstellma
01-02-2013, 04:09 PM
Thanks for comments!
OK, there is not much which indicates that he is an artist. Brushes and canvases are missing. Maybe I should rename my painting?

I think it doesnīt matter that I havenīt outlined everything.

I was more concerned about the relationship between the two persons, that the painting is not divided in one person left and in one person right without any connecting element.

There is some opposition in the painting. The left person is elder, an extrovert, living an unhealthy life, while she is young, reserved and abstinent.
Old man and young beauty, a favourite topic.

It is also not painted realistically, so I was not sure about this style.

tony1
01-03-2013, 08:57 AM
I think the style is great and worth exploring. You never know where a new style will take you. I strongly recommend trying a few more pieces in this style.

As far as the title vs painting. A smock on him instead of shorts would help. Maybe an easel behind the table with her "face" on it may help. Some painting items on the table. I think you could convey what you intended with a bit more indicators.

Regardless, it's a very nice painting, and I'm really liking the style. Please explore it more and see where it takes you.

Andrewcody
01-03-2013, 09:47 PM
Yes Morning after, having a smoke and a drink
Or waiting up and wife or daughter coming in late, smoking and drinking
Also looks like he is wearing Ledder Hosen, so the German connection is made:)
Andrew

AllisonR
01-04-2013, 09:43 AM
Unique style. You have successfully captured warm, reserved, versus cool and open. However, you have not implied he is the drinker - the water jug is near him, the booze is near her. Also, his head looks unfinished. And there is not enough to hint at age, yes she is youngish - but that could be anything from 18-45. You can see better that he is older, maybe 50-60. But I don't instinctively see a huge age gap between them. Change the title.

tstellma
01-04-2013, 04:15 PM
Thank you all for your suggestions. I will brood over it. I think I will do something at his head. I donīt want to spoil the painting. Maybe the viewer should puzzle what is the relation between the two persons.
I had read somewhere that a good painting should not be an easy-to-read painting, it should be full of mystery and should make you thinking.
So it might not be clear and definite. Do you agree?

By the way, he wears a "Lederhose" and is an Austrian.

evanthomas916
01-04-2013, 09:05 PM
Don't. Despite whatever whoever said anything about the head, leave it alone. It works. Any change will mess it up. It's the only thing unifying the figures and table to the background. And it's the only thing you need for that. Your piece has a unity that you risk losing. Start a new painting. That's the better thing to do. Honor accidents and mistakes that work.

evanthomas916
01-04-2013, 11:44 PM
Picasso said something about an artist being two people. The one who paints and the other who says "stop."

Grinner
01-06-2013, 05:47 PM
My goodness.

It seems obvious that the comments pointing out that nothing in the image indicates that one of these people is an artist or that the other is a model is, indeed, a constructive critique of the subject matter, not the title. If the artist wants the viewer to understand those roles better, then art-related materials might, indeed, be worth adding. On the other hand, if the artist does not feel those roles are important to visually convey, then such things would not need to be added. It is up to the artist to determine which critiques are useful and which are not when it comes to his or her own work.

Tstellma, nice job on the painting. The style reminds me a bit of Cezanne, and is very pleasing to the eye. And yes, ambiguity and mystery can be good if that's what you actually want... but that's worth taking the time to think about. Was that what you wanted originally? Did you want their roles to be ambiguous before, or did you just decide that you're OK with their roles being ambiguous? In any case, you - and you alone - will be the one to determine when your work is done and conveys what you want it to convey, or leaves mysterious what you want to be left mysterious. You mentioned in your original post that you were already hesitant to make changes, so that tells me your instincts tell you this is done. If you're not sure, sometimes it helps to put it away for a little while and look at it later with fresh eyes. Best wishes as you continue to paint.

evanthomas916
01-07-2013, 01:45 AM
" It is up to the artist to determine which critiques are useful..." That's one way to say shut up.

tstellma
01-07-2013, 05:26 PM
I have to admit when I painted this piece I thought NOTHING. So I feel a little bit ashamed. My only concern and goal was to get the painting right. At this time I was affected by german expressionists, so you might recognize their influence.
Interpretations came in the aftermath.
The man at left was a dominating instructor of the painting class and many came only because of him (me too).
I was attracted to paint him because he was such an extraordinary person.
The woman at right might be his counterpart. Maybe I had some subconscious thoughts...
Thatīs the whole story.

Isnīt it often that you paint something without thinking and after finishing you ask yourself "oh, what is it?"

I will leave the painting and will change it when I am absolutely sure.
This seems the best to me.

Grinner
01-07-2013, 09:32 PM
I have to admit when I painted this piece I thought NOTHING. So I feel a little bit ashamed. My only concern and goal was to get the painting right.
Never feel ashamed about what leads you to paint. You were inspired, and you painted, and that sequence of events is a thing of wonder and magnificence. You should be proud.

Also, I am sorry for the loss of your instructor. I am glad you had the opportunity to work with someone who left such an impact on you!

Andrewcody
01-07-2013, 09:59 PM
I do not think it is 'full of mystery'
Doubt many would puzzle about the relationships either
There just is not enough interest in either the composition or the painterly quality of the work.
German or Austrian - small detail really as far as short leather pants are concerned

Grinner
01-07-2013, 10:14 PM
Forum guidelines (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=341323)

tstellma
01-08-2013, 02:45 PM
@Andrew, harsh critique doesnīt matter.
How would you make it more interesting and painterly?
Do you have recommendations? Please, help.

tstellma
01-08-2013, 02:59 PM
@Grinner, at the beginning of my painting career I painted everything I saw no matter if it makes sense or not. Now I am more selective and ask myself why I am painting this.
The art instructor affected me but it is also important to go oneīs own way.

Thanks for encouragement

allegretto
01-08-2013, 04:47 PM
I love this painting. I like the colors and the composition. I think the title of a painting is quite personal to the artist. We should not assume that the viewer is incapable of imagining his/her own interpretation of the painting. I say keep the title and don't worry about outlining the man's face. The top and back of his head is outlined in the dark blue already. Let the viewer's eyes complete the lines on the face if they so chose. Your style is unique and fresh, keep at it.

evanthomas916
01-10-2013, 12:40 AM
"nothing in the image indicates that one of these people is an artist or that the other is a model." Oh brother. Since when do artists sit around in bathrobes while the model works a drawing or writing instrument?

Andrewcody
01-10-2013, 01:57 AM
Sorry Evan not sure what you are talking about

Debzy
01-10-2013, 09:26 AM
Hi Tstellma! I haven't logged in here for a while and wow.... some thread you got here!!! :eek: Many critiques on your work have already been discussed or brought to attention, whether tough or encouraging, but I think that could well be the motivation you are looking for! :thumbsup: You wondered if you felt much about it, wondered how others would view it, and you have certainly created an interesting discussion over it! I may take that as a compliment! :clap: Whatever you set out to achieve, you achieved interest and varied viewpoints!:D In my opinion, I think the two characters are too separate, the table is very central creating a division as you suggested may happen. I like the style and the colours and the impressionistic quality of the work. It could be seen that the man is old and fading, versus the vibrant young colourful woman. I get the impression that he is old due to the faded colours.... and that she is young due to the bright colours she is depicted with. As for the title, well because you called it that, I can see it. If you hadn't mentioned artist and model, I may not have. I don't think that matters personally, it is what it is. :) I think all critiques in this thread are valid in their own way and can be taken onboard for future work. I wouldn't change it, it is a personal representation to you and you paint how you feel I believe. You were stumbling for feelings at first, but your result shows they developed as you went. Good luck with the next one, perhaps attempt another of your art instructor in his memory. :thumbsup: well done and thank you, I have also learned much from this thread. :wave: Cheers =)) Debs.

evanthomas916
01-10-2013, 11:46 AM
Sorry Evan not sure what you are talking about
What I quoted, of course.

tstellma
01-10-2013, 04:35 PM
Thank you Debzy for your warm words.

Is the title so essential and decisive? What the two persons are doing besides what is demonstrated in the painting might not be so interesting. Maybe I rename my painting with a number?

Maybe it is up to you what is the painting demonstrating and what is the matter between the two persons. It might not be necessary to show everything. Make your own story.

You mustnīt like the painting but I want to know what is exactly wrong.

For me my painting also looks like a comic.

Thanks for discussion; this is what art needs.

Revilo
01-11-2013, 10:27 PM
Is that a bottle of Jaegermeister on the table? :evil:

leisure artist
01-12-2013, 06:23 PM
Wow there is a lot of debate going on here,i personally like your painting and the style ........i agree that a good painting often needs to be interpretated by the viewer.,should not neccessarily be self explanatory,,,...keep up the good work,,,,,,,:clap: