help on making own oils

[murray]

Hi,
Can anyone help me with some tips/techniques on making my own oil paints. I am in the USA at the moment and would like to buy materials before I go back to SA, would be really grateful for any help.
Thanks
Murray


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Murray Ralfe
Shingwedzi Camp, Kruger National Park, Soiuth Africa
murrayralfe@mweb.co.za

[Titanium]

Murray ,

if your talking about mulling your own paints. Try -

Kremer Pigments [catalogue on-line ]
they are out of New York , have a
telephone and Fax number .
[ You will need a glass muller or
equivalent and oil to mull in - but
you can ask at Kremer ]

Or Sinopia.com [ catalogue and purchasing
on -line ]out of San Francisco.

If your trying to actually refine pigments
from your " back yard " say so .
Best of Luck ,
Titanium

[rhoward]

Murray, we are great advocates of grinding your own paint. It's very easy to do if you have the right equipment. This week will see our introduction of our paint grinding equipment. The muller is handmade in Florence. It has a four inch grinding surface which is more than enough for all practical uses. The slab is sand-blasted tempered glass. This is designed to last a lifetime. The muller and slab will be offered for $100, which is a very good deal.
We also handle Speacial Aged linseed oil, which is the ideal oil for most grinding, along with beeswax to improve the handling and lower the gloss.

Egg tempera painters will want to grind their pigments in water and put them into little jars for later mixing with egg on the palette.

<IMG SRC="http://studioproducts.com/muller.jpg" border=0>

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Cennini Forum http://studioproducts.com/forum/forum.html

[rhoward]

Originally posted by AIGottlieb:
Murray, I've tested that muller, and it's the perfect size...if you're an elf. Keep lookin.'

I doubt that you have tested it because we have not sold one to you. With all due respect, perhaps you are as confused on this matter as you appear to be on other matters concerning the making of paint and paintings.

The bearing surface on that muller is four inches across. If you have ever made your own paints you'll know that that is the about the maximum size before you can no longer break the surface tension. The mullers from Sinopia are from Kremer. They are four inches max. The ones from Robert Doak are four inches max.

My generous nature impels me to assume that you are confusing this muller with another one you have tested. The platen is 16 inches deep, so you can figure out the size is a bit larger than elfin.



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Cennini Forum http://studioproducts.com/forum/forum.html

[LarrySeiler]

There exists no greater authority or amassed information online than my friend from Maui, Hawaii- Don Jusko. There are about 250 pages of information on paints, making all kinds of paints, mediums, varnishes...methods of the masters, etc; for my good, almost too much information. Here is his web site. It will not be a matter of getting information, but knowing when enough information is enough! http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/eek.gif
http://www.mauigateway.com/~donjusko/

Larry

[This message has been edited by lseiler (edited June 25, 2000).]

[rhoward]

Originally posted by lseiler:
not be a matter of getting information, but knowing when enough information is enough!


So true. Jusko has packed as much information into that site as I've ever seen. I even find the careening into definitions of henna and rug making interesting. He's not much of a painter, but he is a good art historian.


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Cennini Forum http://studioproducts.com/forum/forum.html

[LarrySeiler]

I guess its a matter of taste, etc., but my hat goes off to Don as a painter in capturing the lush tropical greens and colors of unique vegetation. Not easy, and his system of transparent YMC colors versus my stubborn clinging to the YRB colors works for him. Here is one Don did that shows Hawaiian tulips after a rain. While I don't like all of Don's work...I don't like all of anyone's work, (including my own). I think Don proves himself a capable painter in specific genres. Larry

<IMG SRC="http://www.wetcanvas.com/Critiques/User/Jusko_tulips.jpg" border=0>



[This message has been edited by lseiler (edited June 28, 2000).]

[rhoward]

Originally posted by AIGottlieb:
Go on. Tell me you're the only person who sells oil paint.

If you bother to investigate our catalogue you will find that we do not sell paints and pigments. We offer hard-to-find materials for the serious artist along with a solid forum dedicated to providing well-tested information from a group of Professional Working Artists who make their living by their painting and are not forced to teach to make a living.

Have a nice career http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by rhoward (edited June 28, 2000).]

[LarrySeiler]

Okay guys....I might only moderate the debate forum, but I can pretty much guarantee that I can get this thread closed and locked up if we don't quickly cease what is becoming an attack on each other.

To disagree is wholly acceptable, making comments on an opinion fine. To make comments that attack the "opinionATOR" is wholly another thing and unacceptable. Cease and desist.

Larry

[scottb]

Agreed...let's all take a breath and head to a neutral corner for a quick breather...

Scott

[LarrySeiler]

It was not my intention to put you on the defensive Rob yet...nothing about treating others with respect earns one a special place with Hallmark. Meanness is not a special quality reserved for secure artists. Anyone feeling secure can allow opinions they don't agree with to simply roll off like water on the back of a duck.

Now...I see you are relatively new here. I invite you to stick around and get a sense of the community here at Wetcanvas. There really are a lot of neat people here, and soon all this "stuff" gettin' people a bit unnerved will just blow by...so, again, feel welcome! Take care...

Larry

[This message has been edited by lseiler (edited June 28, 2000).]

[rhoward]

I have no problem with that at all. I am quite secure with who I am and where I stand as an artist. I'll go back and make that reply fit for inclusion in the Hallmark collection http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/biggrin.gif.

...Rob

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Cennini Catalogue http://studioproducts.com/quickcatalog/catalogframes.html

[rhoward]

Originally posted by lseiler:
Anyone feeling secure can allow opinions they don't agree with to simply roll off like water on the back of a duck.

Thanks for that sage bit of advice, Larry. It makes me all the more secure to know that when my aged mother passes on, there will always be kindly people willing to take her place and correct me.

I appreciate your generosity in sharing your manners with me.

...Rob

[kelly]

At some point this became entertaining.

[paintfool]

Larry, Back to Don Jusko for just a sec. I'm intrigued by his work. Have you have the pleasure of viewing his stuff live & in person? I enjoyed the sneak preview as well as the article on him that appeared in the June issue of American Artist Magazine. One of the things that i got out of it is that there are many different ways to mix paints & use mediums. These ways of course are to be determined by personal preference of opaquness, flow,etc. I find this interesting but don't know that i'll ever have the courage to try! Cheryl

[kemshmi]

Hi Guys http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif

I just did search here at wetcanvas for some information on making my own oil paints..and what a can of worms this is!!
anyway here is my thing..
my mother was a potter and she had offered her entire studio to me but when I moved from Calif to NY I could not take the kiln and wheel and things..I kept the small hand tools..
She still has lots of chemicals for making glazes, cobalt and orchre and several dozen others..what I am wondering is which of these things I might be able to use for making paints http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif..I will check out the site mentioned above I am sure there is tons of info available on-line but any ideas or advice would be appreciated

thanks http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
Kemshmi

[kemshmi]

Sheesh Larry..
I could not wade through all that stuff at your friends site to find any useful info..although I am sure it is there http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

on the need for a suitable surface for grinding I seem to remember that using a piece of marble is good ?? and with that in hand I would only need a pestle http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/cool.gif

thanks again
kemshmi

[357 Mag]

Can't you just shutup RH instead of prolonging the debate by always insisting you get the last word in? Make some cookies or something.

[paintfool]

357 Mag, those posts are six months old & to dredge them up is nonproductive. I'm asking you to please stay on topic. Thanks,
Cheryl

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paintfool

[357 Mag]

I was referring to this post.

[AmyH]

Making my own paints has been of interest to me for a time. I have heard many differing opinions on this subject, ranging from, dont add anything but oil to, add filler for longer life and; "grind" it as finely as possible to dont "grind" it too fine.

I am am ordering my pigment, oil,wax and muller )proper term?) and going to try it my way (the sid vicious way, not the frankie way http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/wink.gif )

AmyH

[kemshmi]

Excuse me Mag.., but I am NOT RH..I have been hanging around wet-canvas for about a year, maybe a bit longer and at least some people here recognize me as Kemshmi. Perhaps I should have started my own thread on the topic, having noticed the inflamitory nature of some of this string..but for me the topic is "info on making my own paints"..

Kemshmi

[kemshmi]

hi Amy..

what is the sid vicious way..or the frankie way??
and I am not sure what of the ores I have I can actually use for this..I have been looking at a book that I borrowed from the library "Painting techniques of the masters" which I noticed in another topic..it mentions some of the things that various artists used, but does not go into any detail about the process..I also know that some pigments are derived from plants, and these I dont have (as they would burn in firing..I only have ores)
I think what I need is a place (hopefully on-line) that has basic recipies for paint making

thanks
Kemshmi

[AmyH]

Kem,

LOL, Sid Vicious (the sex pistols) did a cover of the song "I did it my way". http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

AmyH

[llis]

http://www.sfo.com/~sinopia/paintintro.html

Kemishmi: Here is a simple introduction I found at Sinopia. Hope this helps a little.



[This message has been edited by llis (edited December 27, 2000).]

[paintfool]

Kem, i don't think he's refering to your post. 357, i may be able to spare you further confusion by pointing out that there are dates above each post & RH's last post was indeed six months ago.
I have to laugh at how intimidated i am by the idea of making my own paints. I don't know why. Thanks for the site Llis, i think i'll check it out.
Cheryl


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paintfool

[rhoward]

Originally posted by paintfool:

I have to laugh at how intimidated i am by the idea of making my own paints. I don't know why.




Don't be intimidated by it, Cheryl. It's really easy. I think the thing that throws most people off is the term "grinding" paint. That brings up images of laboriously grinding pebbles into powder. That's already done by the pigment manufacturers. Most pigment is very finely ground when you buy it.

The truth is that you could simply mix the pigment with some oil to make a paste and let it sit for a week and it would become a servicable paint. What the "grinding" process actually does is force the small particles of pigment and the oil into a dispersion.

Many paints can be mixed with nothing more than a palette knife. Emulsion paints, such as egg/oil and glue emulsions are most commonly mixed right on the palette. If you're painting in encaustic, you can just mix dry pigment into the hot wax and Voila! you have encaustic paint.

I hope that take the fear out of it. Get a little bag of pigment and some oil and give it a try. It's fun and, frankly, it makes you respect the paint makers http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/biggrin.gif



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Hard-to-find materials for the serious artist http://studioproducts.com

[tammy]

Originally posted by rhoward:

The truth is that you could simply mix the pigment with some oil to make a paste and let it sit for a week and it would become a servicable paint. What the "grinding" process actually does is force the small particles of pigment and the oil into a dispersion.



I've wondered if making one's own paint is cost effective or not? Is it?
Would it cost a person more or less after a while to mix your own rather than to buy it?
Most things are cheaper if you buy in bulk (like pigment for ex.).
What do you think?



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Tammy-Painter in waiting

[rhoward]

Originally posted by tammy:
I've wondered if making one's own paint is cost effective or not?





Naah! I don't think it's a good way to save money. The only reason that I forego the convenience of using tubed paints is when I want to make a paint that is not offered...either a special color or one with specific handling qualities. I make up batches of white lead primer because I like a very specific surface to paint on (besides, I have an assistant who does it http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/wink.gif )

Generally speaking, I see little need for grinding one's own paint. This is a personal opinion. However, there's a real advantage to making your own pastels and chalks. It's easy, you get REAL cost savings, and you can produce pastels that are superior for your specific purposes. It's also a great way to produce an entire Value range of a single color.

Egg tempera painters usually grind their own paints for the day's work.

Home grinding watercolors is all but impossible.


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Hard-to-find materials for the serious artist http://studioproducts.com

[AIGottlieb]

Very true. For example I cannot find anybody who grinds (sorry, but I'm stuck on that term) lead white the way I like it. It must be in the difference between machine grinding and manual grinding.

I grind all my own colors because I truly believe that all colors ground by hand are superior, even if only by a little, than colors ground by machines.

[bk7251]

I've always heard that the best oil paints are ground three times (using something called a three-roll mill) in order to get a very even consistency. If that is the case, how do you know how much hand-grinding is needed?

Personally, I have trouble finding time in my day to paint as much as I'd like. I can't imagine needing any color I can't buy in a tube enough to use up that precious and limited resource.

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Barry Katz

[Degas5]

You can say that again Barry. Not too many people have the luxury to have enough time to grind their own paints. Give me a tube of Old Holland or Blockx any time and I will be happy enough.

[beauxman]

Originally posted by bk7251:
I've always heard that the best oil paints are ground three times (using something called a three-roll mill) in order to get a very even consistency.

Actually one of the things that is fairly consistant about the old masters paints is that particle size is completely inconsistant. Conservators usually report pigment particles that vary from small rocks to bits of dust. I think this inconsistancy is but one of many things that makes their paint so beautiful.

[figgby]

After reading the above posts I feel compelled to post a caution about the the fact almost all pigments are poison. If they are not bound up in a medium then they must be handled very carefully. The pigments will give you cancer and can cause nerve damage. handle them carefully and find out how to protect yourself before useing them.

[rhoward]

Originally posted by AIGottlieb:

I grind all my own colors because I truly believe that all colors ground by hand are superior, even if only by a little, than colors ground by machines.

Adrian, the criteria you set for yourself are much higher than most of us adhere to. As with you, the lead white that's commercially available just doesn't come close to the stuff we make for ourselves. I also grind a Rose Cartheme because I found a bunch of pigment that was just what I wanted and is not available otherwise. Past that, I buy good quality paints and leave the grinding to others.



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Hard-to-find materials for the serious artist http://studioproducts.com

[rhoward]

Originally posted by bk7251:
I have trouble finding time in my day to paint as much as I'd like. I can't imagine needing any color I can't buy in a tube enough to use up that precious and limited resource.



I agree (generally). However, you owe it to yourself to putter around with grinding your own paint. It gives you insights that you'd never get otherwise. As a learning experience, it's great. As a day-to-day occupation, it's time-consuming.



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Hard-to-find materials for the serious artist http://studioproducts.com

[bk7251]

I already have a day-to-day, time consuming occupation. It's what pays the bills and allows me to paint. It's also why I can't imagine taking the time to grind my own paints, at least until I hit lotto or start selling a lot more paintings. I envy you guys who manage to paint full time. One day, I hope . . . sigh . . .

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Barry Katz

[rhoward]

Originally posted by bk7251:
I envy you guys who manage to paint full time.



I won't be coy...it is wonderful luck to be able to do this for a living. I hope that I can encourage more talented people to realise that it's possible.



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Hard-to-find materials for the serious artist http://studioproducts.com

[cleo]

Originally posted by rhoward:
Murray, we are great advocates of grinding your own paint. It's very easy to do if you have the right equipment. This week will see our introduction of our paint grinding equipment. The muller is handmade in Florence. It has a four inch grinding surface which is more than enough for all practical uses. The slab is sand-blasted tempered glass. This is designed to last a lifetime. The muller and slab will be offered for $100, which is a very good deal.
We also handle Speacial Aged linseed oil, which is the ideal oil for most grinding, along with beeswax to improve the handling and lower the gloss.

Egg tempera painters will want to grind their pigments in water and put them into little jars for later mixing with egg on the palette.

<IMG SRC="http://studioproducts.com/muller.jpg" border=0>



Yes! indeade, make a buck!

At least have the guts (which I don't think
you have) to say thats what your after!

cleo

Wish that I had seen this piece of SH.T sooner!

cleo

[Verdaccio]

Originally posted by cleo:
Yes! indeade, make a buck!

At least have the guts (which I don't think
you have) to say thats what your after!

cleo

Wish that I had seen this piece of SH.T sooner!

cleo

RH has been gone from this forum for some time, so I don't see the relevance of pulling this back to the top...however, if you would like to attack Rob, he has his own forum and he will gladly engage you - just realize that you are grabbing a tiger by the tail. He is at www.studioproducts.com. (http://www.studioproducts.com.) http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif



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Michael Georges
www.fineportraitsinoil.com (http://www.fineportraitsinoil.com)