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Roan
02-17-2001, 05:12 AM
While researching the subject of archival versus non-archival papers, the thought ocurred to me that most of us -- me included -- may be unintentionally misleading our clients regarding the longevity of our paintings.

I'm referring to the framing process. I'm sure the majority of us have been told -- and we religiously apply -- the rule that paintings should be framed with archival materials ONLY. I've read that in countless pastel books. I've heard it from countless pastelists.

We use archival or museum grade pastel papers. We frame with 100% cotton rag mat boards, archival glues, and Japanese hinging tape. We make sure the rabbets on our wooden frames are covered or coated to prevent acid transfer from the wood.

I heartily agreed with the above. Until now.

What about our spacer and back board materials? Many of us use acid-free foam board as spacers and back boards! My pastel book authors, except for the odd one or two (kudos Doug Dawson!) and the occassional plastic spacer, all use or advise one to use acid free foam board. Many also use it as back boards. That material ain't archival!

From the information I've gleaned, this material probably only has a life-span of up to 50 years. After that, it's most likely acid transfer time. Both spacers and back boards actually touch the paintings.

Is this an oversight?

Why are we spending all that extra dough on pastel papers, mat boards, etc., for practically no reason?

If we are using just acid free materials, perhaps it would in our best interests to provide a paragraph or two in our sales receipts or COAs advising clients to have the painting reframed every 30 years or so? Would this cover any liability we may have?

Thoughts? Comments?

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<FONT face="Script MT Bold"><FONT COLOR="#AB4835"><FONT size="5">Roan</FONT s></FONT c></FONT f>
<FONT COLOR="#8A1010">Call caraid tadhal tric, 's call caraid tadhal ainmig.</FONT c>
-- <FONT size="1">Friends are lost by calling often, and by calling seldom.</FONT s>
RoanStudio.com (http://RoanStudio.com) <-- pastel open stock vendor sources & reviews!

[This message has been edited by Roan (edited February 17, 2001).]

Roan
02-17-2001, 05:26 AM
Just for the sake of argument, I've been using rag mat boards for most of my spacers as of late. Not because of the above -- I just learned about this -- but because I have so many odds and ends lying around and I hate to throw stuff out. I cut out the sides I need and glue them one on top of each other with archival glue until I get the thickness I want and need. Then, if necessary, I join them with hinging tape.

It takes a little more work, but uses up the ends and I can better control just how thick the spacer is.

I have also become a lot more careful of where I buy my frames. I've found that most of the wood frames I've bought over the web do NOT have the rabbets varnished. That's a huge no-no and I've even seen this coming from local framers. Don't assume that because it's a frame shop that they really know what they are doing. Ask them about their process and what materials they use. Ask them to show you samples of the type of (and cheapest. See if they try to sell you junk) frame THEY would use to frame a pastel. Judge them accordingly.

As for wooden frames, I'm currently ordering from <A HREF="http://www.pictureframes.com">Graphik Dimensions</a>. They are relatively inexpensive and their rabbets are covered. They also carry some styles in a polycore base. Save a tree and avoid acid :P

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<FONT face="Script MT Bold"><FONT COLOR="#AB4835"><FONT size="5">Roan</FONT s></FONT c></FONT f>
<FONT COLOR="#8A1010">Call caraid tadhal tric, 's call caraid tadhal ainmig.</FONT c>
-- <FONT size="1">Friends are lost by calling often, and by calling seldom.</FONT s>
RoanStudio.com (http://RoanStudio.com) <-- pastel open stock vendor sources & reviews!

[This message has been edited by Roan (edited February 17, 2001).]

LDianeJohnson
02-17-2001, 02:08 PM
Roan,

Your thoughts and comments are essential to quality framing and offering our clients the best product possible. But nothing anyone purchases (or ourselves) is guaranteed. We can just do our best based on the information we have been given, the products currently available that have been tested, and using care in our final framing of pastels.

My usual method is to use the high-end acid-free foam core board for backing, but only on those paintings done on museum board, which is already 4-ply. For works on paper, I use a full layer of 100% rag museum board to mount the art, then the same foam core as a final backing. On larger works, the rigidity is essential. In addition, I add strips of museum board behind the double mat or (mat with a wooden filet), to place additional protection and space for both paintings on board or paper.

Diane

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L. Diane Johnson (http://www.LDianeJohnson.com/) NAPA, PSA
Plein Air Workshops (http://www.LDianeJohnson.com/workshops/)

TeAnne
02-18-2001, 01:59 AM
Originally posted by Roan:

If we are using just acid free materials, perhaps it would in our best interests to provide a paragraph or two in our sales receipts or COAs advising clients to have the painting reframed every 30 years or so? Would this cover any liability we may have?


Hi Roan, you have some good points here. As for the above you mentioned, I think there would be no probs with that. Some people like to change the frames anyway, especially if they want it to match their decor.
I have always left my framing in the hands of a framer. I have no way of doing them myself. I would hope they were honest people who are taking my money.


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ART by TeAnne (http://members.iinet.net.au/~fireice/TeAnneArt.html)
I must make a piece of art everyday for my own well being.

joemajury
02-18-2001, 01:14 PM
Roan!
I have been here just over 2 months now, and am only beginning now to dip my toes into the pastel Forum, which is quite strange considering its the medium I use most of the time.
Archival - Rabbets ?????????
You have stirred my curiosity, where can I find out more about this topic.
I am really interested.

Joe

LDianeJohnson
02-18-2001, 06:36 PM
Good point TeAnne. Most corporations in particular who purchase art reframe everything. In rare instances do they keep what is purchsed on the painting. Regular customers do tend not to reframe their pastels, or at least, only change the frame itself.

It's still wise to make the pastel painting "sandwich" I call it, the glass, matting, painting, backing as archival as you can. Your name still goes on the piece, and if it is never removed from the frame you can have confidence knowing it is taken care of.

If a framer is doing everything for you, you might like to ask him/her for a tour of the framing area and explain what he/she does with your particular work. They love the attention too http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif

Roan
02-18-2001, 11:15 PM
Diane:

Thank you for your comments and I couldn't agree more!

PS:

Got my new LaserJet Color 4550 and I'm in LOOOOOOOOOOOVE! Oooooooooo the colors, the colors! I'm SO glad to get rid of this inkjet. I hate them. I hate the lines. I hate the number of cartridges one goes through just trying to get a good batch of business cards :P Why I bought an Epson, I have no idea. Had to be the hype about the brand. I've always used HP and would still be using my old 4P if it hadn't gotten it's imaging board fried by lightning. Anyhow, just wanted to let you know http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif

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<FONT face="Script MT Bold"><FONT COLOR="#AB4835"><FONT size="5">Roan</FONT s></FONT c></FONT f>
<FONT COLOR="#8A1010">Call caraid tadhal tric, 's call caraid tadhal ainmig.</FONT c>
-- <FONT size="1">Friends are lost by calling often, and by calling seldom.</FONT s>
RoanStudio.com (http://RoanStudio.com) &lt;-- pastel open stock vendor sources & reviews!

Roan
02-18-2001, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by TeAnne:
Hi Roan, you have some good points here. As for the above you mentioned, I think there would be no probs with that. Some people like to change the frames anyway, especially if they want it to match their decor.

I agree, TeAnne. I think I will add a little blurb to my "Taking Care of Your Pastel Painting" handout I give to my clients -- just to be sure. Also to CYA :P

I have always left my framing in the hands of a framer. I have no way of doing them myself. I would hope they were honest people who are taking my money.

Me too! I've never pulled a framed piece apart to see what they did and what they used, but a couple of times I went to framing shops and played "stupid" to see what they would sell me. I just tell them I bought a pastel painting and want to frame it myself and could they show me some frames and what was involved in doing it 'cause i have no clue :P I wasn't happy with what a few of them showed me http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/frown.gif



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<FONT face="Script MT Bold"><FONT COLOR="#AB4835"><FONT size="5">Roan</FONT s></FONT c></FONT f>
<FONT COLOR="#8A1010">Call caraid tadhal tric, 's call caraid tadhal ainmig.</FONT c>
-- <FONT size="1">Friends are lost by calling often, and by calling seldom.</FONT s>
RoanStudio.com (http://RoanStudio.com) &lt;-- pastel open stock vendor sources & reviews!

Roan
02-18-2001, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by joemajury:
Roan!
I have been here just over 2 months now, and am only beginning now to dip my toes into the pastel Forum, which is quite strange considering its the medium I use most of the time.

Well, welcome to YOU, Joe :P

Archival - Rabbets ?????????
You have stirred my curiosity, where can I find out more about this topic.
I am really interested.

Well, I found out about the rabbets on the internet. It's not in any pastel book I have, believe it or not. The rabbets are the, one sec, lemme get a picture for you.. .

<IMG SRC="http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Feb-2001/roanrabbet.gif" border=0>

Dat's the rabbet :P It's the inside of the frame where your painting, mat board and other goodies rest. Everything you put inside the frame rests on it, so my point is that the frame is wood and if the rabbet is not varnished in some way, then the acids in the wood will eventually migrate into your materials.

Not sure about your "archival"? question. What exactly do you need to know?

I will be updating my web site on a regular basis regarding this stuff -- so you can check there -- and will have the first installment on papers up probably tomorrow. It includes some reference sites, so you can go read up more on your own.

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<FONT face="Script MT Bold"><FONT COLOR="#AB4835"><FONT size="5">Roan</FONT s></FONT c></FONT f>
<FONT COLOR="#8A1010">Call caraid tadhal tric, 's call caraid tadhal ainmig.</FONT c>
-- <FONT size="1">Friends are lost by calling often, and by calling seldom.</FONT s>
RoanStudio.com (http://RoanStudio.com) &lt;-- pastel open stock vendor sources & reviews!

Roan
02-18-2001, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by Artistry:
. . .It's still wise to make the pastel painting "sandwich" I call it, the glass, matting, painting, backing as archival as you can. Your name still goes on the piece, and if it is never removed from the frame you can have confidence knowing it is taken care of. . .

Darn tooting! That's why I've started all this research. The last thing I want is to be blamed for deterioration or have some wiseacre framer tell one of my clients -- who is getting a piece reframed -- that I don't know what I'm doing and the painting will fall apart because of the materials I used. I wanna be as professional as I can. Even if I'm not :P

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<FONT face="Script MT Bold"><FONT COLOR="#AB4835"><FONT size="5">Roan</FONT s></FONT c></FONT f>
<FONT COLOR="#8A1010">Call caraid tadhal tric, 's call caraid tadhal ainmig.</FONT c>
-- <FONT size="1">Friends are lost by calling often, and by calling seldom.</FONT s>
RoanStudio.com (http://RoanStudio.com) &lt;-- pastel open stock vendor sources & reviews!