Which Pastel Brand Do You Favor? [Archive]

LDianeJohnson

01-04-2001, 02:50 PM

Yes, they are worth it, but I'd try a few sticks before investing in a full set to be certain they are what you'd like. Other "softies" to try are Unison & Schmnke. Or, you can have custom made pastels through <A HREF="http://www.makepastels.com ">Terry Ludwig's site</a>. His prices are quite reasonable and pastels very fine. After you get your "feet wet", you can even try your hand at making your own...see <A HREF="http://www.wetcanvas.com/ArtSchool/Pastels/MakingPastels/">Phyllis Franklin's great article</a> here at WC.

Enjoy,
Diane

. . . . . . . . . . . . . .
2001 L. Diane Johnson Plein Air Workshops (http://www.LDianeJohnson.com/workshops)

[This message has been edited by Artistry (edited January 04, 2001).]

bk7251

01-04-2001, 02:51 PM

Seneliers are worth every sou. The color range is lovely and the consistency is soft and buttery. They go down like a dream. If you're used to using something harder, you'll need to adjust your touch to accommodate their softness. The only problem with them is that some of the colors break quite easily. That doesn't bother me much, because I often break them intentionally.

If there isn't a store that stocks them where you live, you can get a hand-made color chart from Dakota Art Pastels for a few dollars, which will make it much easier for you to make your selection. Or you can buy them in sets. The set of 100, while a bit pricey, has the advantage of coming in a really nice wooden box that is both sturdy and lightweight - excellent for traveling.

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Barry Katz

jdk

01-04-2001, 04:51 PM

I agree with Diane...don't take other people's words, you got to try it out for yourself. Buy a stick or two of other brands that you might wanna try. For me, I personally like Rembrandt....a lot of pastellists rave about Schmincke that I rushed to get myself some....but didn't like them. I found them too buttery for the kind of paper I use and they break easily and found that too messy. I don't have that kind of problem with Rembrandt and find painting with them more controllable. But maybe for Canson paper they would be nice. So try to experiment a bit and see what works for you. It's a matter of preference.

Good luck,

Juvie

bk7251

01-04-2001, 05:39 PM

I don't like Schminke that much myself.

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Barry Katz

jdk

01-05-2001, 05:36 AM

I must say that I should give Sennelier a try...only that I don't think it's available here in the Netherlands...or at least at the couple of art stores I go to....even those I have to travel 30 mins. +/- in order to get my materials....I have tried Unison pastels (bought the 6-stick trial pack) and they're quite nice....soft but does not break as easily as Schimncke...and the colors are quite vibrant too...

4vincent

01-05-2001, 06:21 AM

I like Sennelier's too, and would like them more if they weren't so fragile as to crumble apart when you just tear away the paper. They do make half stick assortments in forty colors which could give you a chance to try them without spending a lot of money.
I also like the Schminke, Great American and Girault brands. Good luck!

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http://kenhardy.artistnation.com

AggieL

01-06-2001, 12:39 AM

Thank you so much for all of the great advise! I don't think that anyone in my area carries Sennilier or Schmincke so I would probably have to order anyway. I think the suggestion to buy just a few sticks is great. One more question, what papers do you prefer for softer pastels?
Thanks again.
April

blondheim12

01-06-2001, 08:18 AM

I love the senn. pastels. I always buy the half sticks. They are less expensive and i don't like the paper on the full sticks.
Linda

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www.lindablondheim.com (http://www.lindablondheim.com)

bk7251

04-25-2001, 11:15 AM

I just got home from a week in Paris, where I was finally able to track down the legendary Henri Roché pastels. It wasn't easy. They have a tiny shop at the rear of a courtyard off a side street - marked only by a small, faded sign - and they are only open Thursday afternoons from 2:30 - 5:30 PM.

The very charming owner, Isabel Roché told me a lot about the firm's history - which is way more than I can post here. I'm writing an article about it and hope to send it to Pastel Journal or some other magazine. Any suggestions?

By the way, the pastels are very expensive, but worth it. Wonderful, rich, subtle colors (1,600 of them), and a medium firm texture that lays down beautifully and blends very easily.

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Barry Katz

DFGray

04-25-2001, 02:30 PM

Hi Barry
Sounds like a great find (maybe a good subject?) did you do any work while there?
regards
Dan

DFGray

04-25-2001, 02:31 PM

Hi Barry
Sounds like a great find (maybe a good subject?) did you do any work while there?
regards
Dan

bk7251

04-25-2001, 04:01 PM

Dan - This wasn't really a painting trip for me. I had my kids along and tried to show them the city. But I did a few quick sketches. Here's one. It's small - just 6 x 9" approx.

<IMG SRC="http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Apr-2001/BridgeWithFerrisWheel.jpg" border=0>

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Barry Katz

[This message has been edited by bk7251 (edited April 25, 2001).]

VictoriaS

04-25-2001, 05:26 PM

Looks good, BK. Have never heard of these pastels; are they not available in the U.S.?

Victoria

bk7251

04-25-2001, 08:36 PM

Victoria - Roché pastels have never been sold in the US, but the firm has lately been taken over by a younger member of the family, Isabel Roché, who hopes to start marketing the product in NY - probably at New York Central. Though, it may take some time before that happens.

The firm of Henri Roché is very old and has been in the same family since 1875. Their customers included Degas, Puvis de Chavannes, Sisley, and Whistler.

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Barry Katz

cromag

05-14-2001, 07:07 PM

im curious what people here are using, and why?
thanks,
dante

Roan

05-14-2001, 10:02 PM

Cromag,

There are many threads in this forum in which people refer to their favorite brands of pastels and why.

You might want to go through the past posts and read a few. Here are a couple to get you started:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/000091.html http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/000177.html

There are many more, so it's best to just peruse the back threads and see what you can come up with http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif

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Roan
"Chuireadh e na searraich bho dheoghal." --
It would put the foals from sucking.
(So bitter or disgusting.) 
RoanStudio.com (http://RoanStudio.com) <--- supply resources for pastelists!
Wet Canvas Community Web Ring! (http://RoanStudio.com/webrings/wetcanvas/index.html) <--- Shameless plug!

MarshaSavage

05-15-2001, 09:00 AM

After reading the previous links, you may have determined that a lot of people like to add the Sennelier after beginning with Rembrandts. And of course, trying a couple of sticks of all brands so that you can make your own decisions. I did want to make a pitch for the 80 half stick set of Sennelier. Wonderful range of colors, thicker sticks with no paper - and they don't crumble as easily as the regular sticks. This is a great way to get your next set to try and usually can be found in one of the catalogs for a sale price and quite reasonably, too.

If you have some Nupastel to block-in, Rembrandts to do the major work with, and Sennelier to finish with, of course depending on your support, you will be able to do just about anything your head can dream up.

Just my two-cents worth!

Marsha -- http://marshasavage.artistnation.com

Gisela

05-15-2001, 10:27 AM

I have to add, that Wet Canvas's own Terry Ludwig makes some really beautiful pastels. Terry was kind enough to send me some and they are my favorites. Really great texture and rich colors! http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif

Gisela

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Artworks by Gisela Towner (http://www.artistnation.com/members/paris/gisela)

joemajury

05-15-2001, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by Gisela:
I have to add, that Wet Canvas's own Terry Ludwig makes some really beautiful pastels. Terry was kind enough to send me some and they are my favorites. Really great texture and rich colors!

Gisela

Ditto !!!!!! the above - Terrys Pastels are the best that I have worked with.

Joe

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Today - Im going to make someone smile !

babys_breath

05-17-2001, 02:42 AM

Hello.I like the pencil pastels best.They give me more control to make fine detail.I use Cretacolor fine art pastels

Roan

05-17-2001, 07:24 AM

baby's breath:

Pencil pastels are great to work with, but are considered more of a drawing than a painting tool. They make a great "in between" step when an artist begins the move from drawing to painting.

Some of us use them for fine detail areas instead of or in addition to Nupastels, but for laying in large areas of color and/or large works, they are difficult to work with.

They're also rather brittle and don't layer well. Some of our paintings -- depending on the individual's style, mind you -- have anywhere from 5-20 layers of pastel on them.

I've also found the colors -- regardless of brand -- to be rather weak and lack the vibrancy of pastel. Pencil pastels have to have a lot of binder in order for them to hold together in a wood casing. Unfortunately, that doesn't make for a lot of pigment.

In a pastelist's arsenal pastel pencils are a great supplement, but the real heavy canons are actual sticks of pastel.

I started with a full set of Conté and Derwent and I love my sets, but I rarely use them now unless it's for an underpainting or details.

Kinda miss them at times http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif

------------------
Roan
"Chuireadh e na searraich bho dheoghal." --
It would put the foals from sucking.
(So bitter or disgusting.) 
RoanStudio.com (http://RoanStudio.com) <--- supply resources for pastelists!
Wet Canvas Community Web Ring! (http://RoanStudio.com/webrings/wetcanvas/index.html) <--- Shameless plug!

cromag

05-22-2001, 01:52 PM

thanks all!

as always great info and direction !

Roan

06-20-2001, 09:32 PM

Time for a poll!

joemajury

06-21-2001, 04:13 PM

Roan,
I voted Rembrandt, but only because you left of my favourite, our very own Terry Ludwigt.
No joking, his Pastels are superb !!!!!

Joe
;) ;)
I had them shipped from the USA all the way to Belfast :D

Roan

06-21-2001, 11:01 PM

Bah, Joe! You should have posted that and waited to vote. I just added Terry's to the poll :)

djstar

06-22-2001, 02:49 AM

I have ONE Diane Townsend lavender that I got as a sample when I took my class and it is orgasmic!
I like Holbein second. Well, no, I may LIKE them more but I just started using them. I tend to go for the hard pastels, and truth be told it is because I have so little room, I think I feel safer spraying fixative and knowing the harder pastels will not sink in as much and are more stable.
Soft pastels are so rich and buttery but the constraints of storage are really rough on them.
When I get rich (HE HE HE) I will buy those Diane's and frame and glass them in and be in heaven!
dj*

Gisela

06-22-2001, 01:01 PM

Terry's got my vote!!

I think I have almost all the brands listed, but Terry's are the best!

Gisela

joemajury

06-22-2001, 05:29 PM

Roan,
You certainly keep on top of your work here as Moderator, that was quick, thank you, did you change my vote over, or shall I vote again, CAN I vote again?
Talking about Terry, I havent heard from him in a while, has anybody?

Joe
;) ;)

Roan

06-25-2001, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by joemajury
Roan,
You certainly keep on top of your work here as Moderator, that was quick, thank you, did you change my vote over, or shall I vote again, CAN I vote again?
Talking about Terry, I havent heard from him in a while, has anybody?
Joe, we can only vote once and as moderator I can't reset or change any polls. Good thing actually. Maybe you could ask someone to come in and vote for Terry's for you?

Terry popped in . . . ah, there it is. Last we saw him he posted May 18 in response to our congratz thread (Pastel Journal interview). I suspect that with all this exposure he's become a very busy man.

Terry

06-25-2001, 04:08 PM

The rumors are wrong....... Terry is still around and kickin!
I have been REAL busy since the Pastel Journal article and
IAPS Convention. I have been making pastels to fill orders
at Dakota Pastel Art.com The problem is that I dont have time to paint anymore, I must find a soultion to this.
Thank you for your concern.
Terry Ludwig ludwigt@earthlink.net http://www.terryludwig.com

sandge

06-25-2001, 04:23 PM

I use a mixture of all different ones from very soft to hard. Some are good for general coverage, the hard ones are good for blending the softer ones. Some have good range of darks.

Of the ones that are available of over here I use sennelier, scmincke, unison, rembrandt, windsor & newton, art spectrum, inscribe, conte, some pastel pencils... anything I can get hold of, I try out! :D

Roan

06-25-2001, 08:58 PM

Originally posted by sandrafletcher
I use a mixture of all different ones from very soft to hard. Some are good for general coverage, the hard ones are good for blending the softer ones. Some have good range of darks.

Of the ones that are available of over here I use sennelier, scmincke, unison, rembrandt, windsor & newton, art spectrum, inscribe, conte, some pastel pencils... anything I can get hold of, I try out! :D

Oh, me too, Sandra. However, I voted for the ones I usually reach for first :)

Ohju

06-25-2001, 10:42 PM

I picked Other, I use Alfacolor...they work for me, and have lasted many years. I can't find any other than Rembrant, which I can't afford right now. Maybe after my commision piece is done, and money in hand, I'll get those. :o ~Julie

TeAnne

06-26-2001, 06:05 AM

Originally posted by Terry Ludwig
The rumors are wrong....... Terry is still around and kickin!
I have been REAL busy since the Pastel Journal article and
IAPS Convention. I have been making pastels to fill orders
at Dakota Pastel Art.com The problem is that I dont have time to paint anymore, I must find a soultion to this.
Thank you for your concern.
Terry Ludwig ludwigt@earthlink.net http://www.terryludwig.com I love mine that you sent me Terry. :)

artman2384

06-27-2001, 03:06 PM

I think rembrant are the best :D

Mich451

06-28-2001, 09:13 PM

I voted other...

I LOVE the very old grumbacher soft pastels. I treasure my original set, and hunt them down any time there is an artist cleaning house.

Ummm...I almost want to put them on toast...

Hey, performance art. Am at the fair with my Handy-Dandy toaster on one side...and my pastels on the other...step right up folks and see an artwork created before your very eyes...

djstar

07-22-2001, 06:17 PM

Mich! Me too. I was given a whole box way centuries ago in school and when I picked them up again, I never realized they were ghosts!
I found a 6 pack at Pearl a year ago, but the ones I have are really smart. They are square but longer and flatter than any of the newer ones. I really like handling them because I have so many choices of edges. Most of my brighter whiter colors are still good and since I use harder pastels predominatly these days, they are still in their plastic box, waiting for just the right picture...
Hmmm. maybe EBAY could make me rich!?!?
dj*

MarshaSavage

08-02-2001, 08:58 AM

I voted for the Unison because I have not picked up a bad one and they seem to store and/or travel the best.

They are almost as good as the half-sticks you get from Sennelier. I would love to see the Sennelier (all colors) sticks go to the size of the half-stick thickness. But, with saying that, I have not tried their newer sticks. Rumor said they are thicker than the old ones? Also, in their new 80-half-stick set, every set I have seen (about 6) has a couple (the mid-value and dark teal/blues) that are so hard they don't even come off onto the paper, just scratch it. I am planning to e-mail the company and see what gives with these few sticks.

Thanks - it is nice to see what other people think about those that I have not tried yet. Can't wait to try the Terry Ludwig pastels.

Marsha --
Marsha Hamby Savage Art (http://marshasavage.artistnation.com)

ThinkSeeDraw

08-06-2001, 11:48 AM

I am a big fan of oil pastels and a bit of the softies, but i have grumbacher oil pastels, and alphacolor softies, and i'm not sure if i like them all too much, i was wanting to try senneiler (i know i spelled that wrong!) but i haven't heard much about that! I love to use pastels, and i would really like to know what is the best one??? Unison is off the wall slap u in the face EXPENSIVE!!!!! :mad: I saw it for about 1 THOUSAND bucks for a big set of them!! :o ARE U INSANE!??!?!??!? :confused: I think i'll take the car thank you! Other than those, what are the best in oil and soft pastels???? Price doesn't really matter to me (just as long as it's not over a thousand for a big set!) just as long as i get that quality ;)

Anyways, i think that so far, this is extremely helpful to me ;) thank you all!

MarshaSavage

08-07-2001, 06:31 AM

Darcy,

I just ordered two 18-piece dark sets and one 18-piece landscape set of Unison from a mail-order store in England. Total price is about $85.00 with $11 shipping. They said it should arrive in about one week. Don't know per their e-mail if the $11 is included in the $85 or on top of the $85. But either way - the price is far superior to anything I have found in the U.S. If the $85 includes shipping - works about to $27 per set. Everything shows in "pounds" but if you e-mail them, they will give the estimated dollar amount. Give "Jacksonsart.com" a look. They carry other artist supplies, too! I ordered from them because of reading a glowing review by another person that had ordered from them.

Marsha --

Marsha Hamby Savage Art (http://marshasavage.artistnation.com)

ThinkSeeDraw

08-07-2001, 08:52 AM

$27 a set, I would be able to afford that! Over here..... well,

I whipped out an ASW catalog and looked the pastel sets up, 18 color dark value set... Retail $78.25, ASW price, $55.99! It's a lot more expensive here for some reason. God how i wish i could live where u are :crying:

They had a 36 set, $112.19, 72 set, $235.99, and the 270 set, $805.99

That costs more than my studio easel!!!!!

I think unison is definetely the best quality pastel out there, it just isn't within my price range :crying:

I have about 30 bucks right now and i am saving up more for a nice pastel set. I just hope i can get it someday....

But oh my gosh, if there was some way i could get those unison pastels for 27 bucks a pop, i would snatch it up in an instant :D

I will definetely check out jackson art though, thank you ;)

ThinkSeeDraw

08-07-2001, 09:07 AM

I REALLY want to know what the best oil pastel is, cuz i am just guessing that these are all softs, I haven't ever tried quality softies before, but i probably will, it will burn a hole in my tiny wallet though :crying:

I don't know why, but I just always dump out my piggy bank to pay for art supplies, and the thing is, i always have the choice of doing it! I want the best for my imagination, and i want to be able to get the best effects possible.... I am pretty sure that one would say, it's not the pastel that makes the work, it's the artist who uses them, but be honest, the better the product, the better the outcome is going to be....

I've narrowed it down to Rembrandt, terry madden, and sennelier, but i am so stumped about this, cuz people are saying that they are loving the terry maddden, yet rembrandt is voted as the best, and then sennelier is barely scraping the surface with their votes, and yet people say that they like them!

my blonde brain is getting overloaded, but i guess that votes matter and i'll get the rembrandt........................or the sennelier.. I DON'T KNOW!!!!!!!! Someone make the decision for me pleeze :confused:

Earlene

08-23-2001, 01:31 AM

Thank you all for the great information about pastels. I haven't decided to get into pastels yet but it totally intriques me. Thanks again y'all :D

diphascon

08-23-2001, 09:04 AM

Well, I prefer Schmincke soft pastels (which imho are the best "really soft") in connection with Jaxell "Soft Pastels" (sqare ones, which are, to be honest, rather hard) and Stabilo CarbOthello pastel pencils for sketching and more detailed work.

The Schmincke give wonderful colours but for an occasional weakly trained pasteller like me they are not easy to master.

cheers

martin (who does not know what to vote)

Rick R

08-30-2001, 03:30 PM

I am the supreme novice, having spent my time in fa photography and drawing, but so far I have a sampling of quite a few of the soft pastel brands, and they're all hideously pleasant to use!

I did just buy a set of Yarka (Russian, cheap) soft pastels from Dick Blick. Actually, I expected them to be hard and have rough edges, but they are actually fairly soft and I like them a lot.

I also have a set of cheap chalk pastels that I get out when my kids want to "help", and hell, I'm such a connoisseur that I enjoy them too!

Hmm, I guess you can toss me anything and I'll be happy.

MChesleyJohnson

09-07-2001, 12:30 PM

Regarding a remark upstream about the half-stick Senneliers...

At IAPS in Santa Fe this past summer, I had the opportunity to ask Dominique Sennelier, who was giving a presentation on his company's products, if Sennelier would ever make the full range of colors available in half-sticks. His answer was no.

I prefer the half-sticks, too, as they are more durable and a better size for my fingers. (I've dropped both the full-sticks and the half-sticks, and I have to say, the half-sticks have a better survival rate!)

MChesleyJohnson

09-07-2001, 12:33 PM

...also (continuing the Sennelier sub-thread)...

Sennelier is aware that several of the new colors are so hard they will scratch right through your paper. I e-mailed them on this, and they replied that they are reformulating them.

Andrew

12-23-2001, 02:42 PM

This is a tough question. Though I am still learning the drawing/painting skills associated with pastels, I have to confess my favorite depends on what I am doing.

If I am plein aire pastelling, I prefer Yarka "harder" and the soft Alphacolor. They are bold and inexpensive. If I drop them in a lake or something, I am not out the investment and the color is quite satisfactory. If I am in playing with color, I tend to reach for Alphacolor again, because I can use a lot of them for little money until I settle on the color scheme I like. When I am ready for a finished work in the studio, I usually go for Rembrandt first. I love the texture and color density, and the availability where I live is an added plus.

Yarka also makes sets of conte like chalks that I prefer over the traditional conte crayons. They are far less expensive, just as rich in tone, and survive transport and dropage better.

For oil pastels, I use Pentel for sketching and working out color composition. They are a little firmer and last a long time. When I go for a finished product, I go for Sakura.

Andrew

RWeller

01-12-2002, 01:58 PM

LOVE my rembrandts ;)

stealth

02-22-2002, 11:27 PM

i have a set of artwork pastels,rowneys,nu-pastels ,rembrandts and senneliers,i like the rembrandts best as a starting point but the senneliers work better for final touches, mainly the light colored ones, yumm.

craigcooper

02-27-2002, 07:35 AM

Terry sent me a sample box and I love him dearly for it! but now I need more and more.. they are far superior than anything we get down here.. I use Conte hard pastels but we really need a soft pastel that is good... Terry's are great!.. even took his pastels to my local art shop and showed em!! they are looking at importation..YAA! :clap: :clap: :clap: :D

ptantono

04-11-2002, 04:40 AM

I only have W&N and Rembrant. I have never tried others as they are not sold around me. I think I like Rembrant better than W&N.

LarrySeiler

05-07-2002, 12:01 AM

well...I'm using the assorted set of Terry's and a Rembrandt set.

I like both, but Terry's goes on velvety, soft...and I'm learning now what they mean with "buttery" when speaking about pastels. Very nice. Spoiling in fact. They more or less glide on. Amazing....

I will have to invest in some of Terry's greens and sky blues that I think will help my landscapes more...but until then, will use my Rembrandts for those.

Larry

jinn

05-15-2002, 01:33 PM

Maybe I'm odd for preferring pastel pencils, but I absolutely ADORE Stabilo carbOthello pastel pencils. They are extremely vibrant and very smooth to work with.

msue

06-29-2002, 09:23 AM

I haven't voted because I haven't consistently used pastels to have a true preference yet, and what I own is a mishmash of brands

Comment re: Grumbacher. I have several odd colors that I bought off a close out table. The selection of colors was limited but they were the only thing available at this particular store. I've found some of them have hard "stones" and thought maybe that was why they were being discontinued.

Comment re: Rembrandt. Have a box set of bright colors and unfortunately haven't used many yet because I'm usually gluing paper on collages, but I do like the coverage I get and how smooth they are.

Comment re: Windsor Newton: Just acquired a couple colors in this line (okay I admit it they were less expensive than the Sennelier I had planned to try) I think I'm going to like them.

Comment re: Terry and Diane........don't have any yet:(

hlee

08-15-2002, 12:42 PM

Hi all -

Being kind of a pastel newbie, I found this thread very useful ... I"ll know what to look for the next time a pastel fit is on me when I visit the art supplies store :D ... thanks!

I bought a set of 48 oil pastels a long while back - Gallery (by a company called Mungyo) - has anyone heard of the name? If not, and it's probably not the best by a far mark, but because I've never used pastels very often, what would you recommend for an economical starter pack?

Now I've taking them out again and playing around with them lately, like in the Glass a la Pastel project, but I found them a bit hard to blend smoothly, especially in mixing a colour for large area. So another naive question is, are oil pastels supposed to be like that? How do you tell whether or not a stick of oil pastel is of good quality? The colours in that set are bright enough, but I guess with these things, it's a matter of trying different brands to campare?

gmc

08-15-2002, 01:16 PM

I was just wondering how Rembrandt and Sennelier stood up to the fading.

The nu-pastel turning white is scary. I wonder what would happen if nu-pastel is used as an underpainting. Would the entire painting fade?

geri

gmc

08-15-2002, 05:46 PM

Virgil,

Thank you for the information. I certainly will stay tuned as I have been using Nu-Pastel very frequently as a foundation coat and applying Rembrandt, Sennelier as second layers, etc.

I will just have to splurge and get those Unisons.

Thanks again

geri

ptantono

08-15-2002, 10:00 PM

Virgil,

Thank you for the useful information. Did you also do some test with Rembrant ?

Best regards,
Patricia

msue

08-16-2002, 10:24 PM

hlee: I've heard of the Gallery Pastels you have. We sale that brand at Hobby Lobby. Don't know what kind of results anyone gets. We do carry them with the "artist" supplies and not the children's art supplies.

Vigil: This testing you and your co-workers are doing is very interesting. Hope to see more of the results.

ptantono

08-18-2002, 06:43 AM

Thank you Virgil, it is very helpful. I would not sell my painting to anyone if the colors could fade.

hlee

08-18-2002, 10:31 AM

Originally posted by msue
hlee: I've heard of the Gallery Pastels you have. We sale that brand at Hobby Lobby. Don't know what kind of results anyone gets. We do carry them with the "artist" supplies and not the children's art supplies.

That's some relief! :D Thanks ... I was thinking there must be some brands that also produces a line of oil pastels reknowned for their quality. But I think I'm getting used to the Galleries now, maybe it was just because I was using the wrong paper. They worked out very nicely on cold-pressed wc paper, though of course some stumping was required to get a smooth, evenly covered area. Also got some Mi-Teintes that I'll try them on.

Virgil, I guess pastel pencils are probably the same deal ... but may I ask how the Stabilo CarbOthellos did? Conte?
Thanks for the important insights you've shared with us! :clap: :clap:

hlee

08-19-2002, 12:12 PM

Thanks, Virgil ... what's the cause of the pigments fading? Shouldn't pastel pencils have more or less similar lightfastness rates as say, soft pastels in stick form? Or is it because the latter has a higher concentration of pigment?

Virgil Elliott

08-19-2002, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by hlee
Thanks, Virgil ... what's the cause of the pigments fading? Shouldn't pastel pencils have more or less similar lightfastness rates as say, soft pastels in stick form? Or is it because the latter has a higher concentration of pigment?

Light is what causes some pigments to fade. Some fade, and some do not. When manufacturers choose fade-prone pigments instead of more permanent ones, the pastels, colored pencils or paints made with them will fade. It isn't so much a matter of the concentration of pigment, but the nature of the pigment chosen.

Artists must express concern for permanence, or the manufacturers will have no reason to be concerned with it themselves, and the products will not be improved.

Virgil Elliott
www.virgilelliott.com

Linda Ciallelo

08-26-2002, 09:17 PM

I start with Conte' pencils, and some Derwent, then add Nu-pastels, and Winsor-Newton, Rowney, and some old Grumbachers. I am not too concerned about fading because I have always used mainly earth colors. I stopped using Rembrandt because there was always a huge shift when I sprayed them with fixative. The Grumbacher were wonderful for awhile, but then the quality deteriorated. They were wildly inconsistent in texture , color, and labeling. If you found one that you liked, you could never replace it. Rowney are nice , but they break easily. It seems that the softer pastels would darken the most when sprayed with fixative. I tried different fixatives also, but they all darken. I found Grumbacher workable fixative to be one of the least darkening.
Actually I liked the old Conte' rounds, that they don't make anymore. They were hard enough so that you could safely scrub in a nice texture. The Conte' crayons that they make now, are a bit too hard.

Koert

10-16-2002, 06:34 AM

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65592

ThinkSeeDraw

10-16-2002, 08:00 AM

I saw recently in a ASW catalog a new line of colorfast pastels by van gogh, i will have to give those a try

Virgil Elliott

10-16-2002, 12:43 PM

Pastel manufacturers' claims of colorfastness are best regarded with a healthy degree of skepticism.

llis

11-20-2002, 04:12 PM

Have to say that I love my Terry Ludwig pastels too. Next on the list are the ones that I make by hand using the formulas that Terry gave me. :D It's fun to try to duplicate those wonderful greens.

Next on my list are those big block Diane Townsend pastels, then Those wonderful Schmincke that I only have a few of. :(

I also have a weird brand called Mungyo that are made in Korea that work really nice and softer than Rembrants but not as soft as the Schminckes. I bought those at Michael's at a half price sale.

I think it's good to have many different brands and then decide which ones work best for your type of work and technique. All brands have their use and place, and you can never have too many. LOL

meowmeow

12-19-2002, 07:40 AM

I agree with Phyllis that a variety works best. I use different brands for different layers and just different things.
Generally I use my Rembrandts with a few Schmincke's. I have the half set of Sennelier's and the ones that work I really like. :D
I also have the Girault grey set and I love those. I want to get some more. I just got (this morning in fact) the Great American portrait set. I am looking forward to trying those.
Too many pastels....too little time....

Sandy

EastDevil

02-08-2003, 01:19 PM

Virgil,

So what pastel brands do you use personally?

Michael

stealth

02-10-2003, 08:33 PM

your paintings are exceptional and the pastel nude with satin is me favorite,so much talent, and thanks for all your advice and help with pastels.

Brooke

02-16-2003, 12:45 PM

Can't answer 'cause different pastels have different qualities for different uses.
I just got my first Terry Ludwig, and I really love them.
My ABSOLUTE favorite is a pencil - specifically, General's Multi-Pastel Chalks. Unfortunately, they only come in 12 colors now, but I've been told by General that there will be 24 this summer. Even with the limited colors I find that I use them constantly. Somehow those 12 colors seem to morph into whatever color I need!! Honest.

ptantono

02-18-2003, 02:25 AM

Have any body tried Caran d'Ache soft pastels ?

soap

08-05-2003, 02:58 AM

Since I'm able to get good results in oils, a medium in which one can more readily determine which colors will not fade, my motivation to work in pastels or any other medium of questionable archival quality is not sufficient to compel me to set aside my oil paints.

Just to let you know you need to do some more research, as all professional pastel brands are archival and light fast. Since no extra mediums are necessary (oil, varnish) the longevity of pastels is extremely good.

Ameniatha

08-05-2003, 06:05 AM

I voted other, cause I use Derwent pastels..... :rolleyes:

Vegas Art Guy

08-05-2003, 01:07 PM

I use Van Gogh oil pastels, conte crayons and if I remember correctly my regular pastels are Yarka. (Got them several years ago...)

jimb

08-05-2003, 01:31 PM

Anything but Senniliers. The darks are way too hard.

Virgil Elliott

08-05-2003, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by stealth
your paintings are exceptional and the pastel nude with satin is me favorite,so much talent, and thanks for all your advice and help with pastels.

Stealth,

Thank you for the kind words. I hope to do more work in pastels, as soon as I can be assured I have a wide enough range of colors that will not fade.

Virgil Elliott

Dyin

09-25-2003, 05:10 PM

Holbein OIL PASTELS, that is! Rating this thread also for new pastel library...please rate this!

Mo.

09-25-2003, 06:49 PM

Sue I have already put the link in the library for llis to see, and have also rated it.

Mo.:)

Khadres

02-01-2004, 03:20 PM

Khadres

02-01-2004, 03:26 PM

If I am plein aire pastelling, I prefer Yarka "harder" and the soft Alphacolor. They are bold and inexpensive...... Yarka also makes sets of conte like chalks that I prefer over the traditional conte crayons. They are far less expensive, just as rich in tone, and survive transport and dropage better.

Andrew

I recently won an auction on eBay for a set of Yarka pastels. When I first got them I was rather disappointed in the way they DIDN'T work on Canson and so I kinda put them aside, thinking myself lucky that I didn't pay much for them.

The other day, however, I was experimenting with Wallis paper for the first time and I got the Yarkas out to try them on that and WOW! They're WONDERFUL on sanded paper....possibly the richest, "paintiest" of all the pastels I have. So....they're now out with my smattering of Unisons and they'll stay out with the new full set of Rembrandts that I just spent my Xmas money on. Take THAT Sennelier! Pah on your crumbly, overpriced pastels! :cool:

Sooz

ExpressiveAngie

02-04-2004, 07:01 AM

I voted Great American Artworks a long time back but never posted. I have several brands including; Unison, Rembrandt, Downey, Terry Ludwig and nupastel, but the great American are the ones I grab the most.
Angie

cjkelly

02-06-2004, 05:20 PM

Khadres

02-14-2004, 11:04 AM

I indicated Art Spectrum as the colour range is based on the Aussie landscape, and they are easily available here. But I also use, and really like, Winsor Newton, Holbiens, a few Senneliers and a couple of very precious Schminkes. Rembrandts are actually my least favourite. I'd love to use the Schminkes more but they are incredibly expensive and hard to get. The other brands I have not been able to locate here in Oz, and my greatest wish is to one day find and try some Unison....sigh.....

cj

Just got my first Art Spectrums the other day and I LIKE them! They're somewhere just under Schmincke and Unison in softness....lovely glowing colors! Unisons are lovely! Expensive tho....moreso than the Schminckes.Is it possible for you to order from England or the US via websites? Surely some retailers online will be willing to ship to Aussieland? Shipping might be awesomely expensive tho....not sure. Worth a look?

Anyway, at this point, I don't think I could PICK a favorite brand! I'm happy with all that I've tried except the crumbly Senneliers. Let's face it....I WANT 'EM ALLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!! (insert maniacal laughter here) :D

Sooz

Kitty Wallis

02-18-2004, 04:06 PM

Paula Ford

02-18-2004, 04:42 PM

Believe it or not but I love Dick Blick brand. Recently I won an Ebay auction for Rembrandts and I don't like them.

I also LOVE Schmincke!!!

Kathryn Wilson

02-19-2004, 11:12 AM

I think I posted on this when it first started, but I may have changed my mind since. I have tried the Art Spectrum pastels and I like the color choices - some are so different and they add so much to my painting.

I went bonkers on Unison and love the softness - but in reality I'd rather have something a bit harder for my first layers and save the Unisons for the very last layer. Goldfarber pastels are somewhere inbetween Nupastels and Art Spectrum and I seem to pick them up the most these days. My little set of half sticks are wearing down to nubbins.

Maggie P

02-20-2004, 01:00 PM

It's like asking which kind of chocolate you like best! But, if I had to narrow it down to two brands, it would be Pastels Girault and Unison. I love the Girault for so many reasons...they blend beautifully, they aren't too hard or too soft, they cover well but you can layer over them. When I'm working on a painting, I keep out all the sticks I've used, and when it's time to clean up there are usually 60-75% Girault. But they don't make every color, and so I supplement with others, most often Unison. I also use Great American Artworks, Schmincke, and Mount Vision pastels a lot. I love them all. Opening a box of pastels is almost as good as opening a box of chocolates!
:)

mermaid

02-21-2004, 01:37 PM

Looks good, BK. Have never heard of these pastels; are they not available in the U.S.?

Victoria

These fabulous pastels are now available at one store in the U.S. - Fine Arts Supply in New York.

Khadres

02-22-2004, 08:10 PM

I've been making my own pastels for 20 years. I love the freedom of color; I can have Any color of Any value. And I love the intimate relationship I've attained with the colors and the pigments. I can incorporate color insights into my palette, evolving my color voice.

Kitty

Aha! Another purist! When I'm still learning how to use the commercial standard brands! As a point of interest, however, can you say how cost effective making your own is? Cheaper? More expensive? About the same? I always wondered what kind of prices pure pigments bring and where to even get them.

What's your ratio/recipe of ingredients? Do you have a rule of thumb?
How about a "How I Make My Own Custom Pastels" demo/article for us? I'd LOVE to see how it's done!

Sooz

lozz

02-23-2004, 09:35 AM

Aha! Another purist! When I'm still learning how to use the commercial standard brands! As a point of interest, however, can you say how cost effective making your own is? Cheaper? More expensive? About the same? I always wondered what kind of prices pure pigments bring and where to even get them.

What's your ratio/recipe of ingredients? Do you have a rule of thumb?
How about a "How I Make My Own Custom Pastels" demo/article for us? I'd LOVE to see how it's done!

Sooz

WOW! You make your own pastels!!!!
That sounds interesting....
How do you do that? :confused:

I'm new to all of this and just have a set of Derwent pastel pencils, but that's because of their availablity locally. I'm going to try some other brands though...

Khadres

02-23-2004, 09:32 PM

WOW! You make your own pastels!!!!
That sounds interesting....
How do you do that? :confused:

I'm new to all of this and just have a set of Derwent pastel pencils, but that's because of their availablity locally. I'm going to try some other brands though...

I don't know how she does it....Kitty Wallis does all sorts of neat things like inventing the perfect pastel paper, too! Hopefully, she'll tell us how she does it. I can just imagine all these beautiful shades no one else makes, but it does sound a tad messy and like a LOT of work! Still......

Sooz

Kitty Wallis

03-12-2004, 12:08 AM

Pastel recipes are a big subject since each pigment demands it's own formula. Pigments are made all over the globe. While researching the suppliers and the colors, I tested them from most manufacturers for applicability to pastels. Are they clean in color, have a reasonable texture in the finished stick? I was determined to find colors I didn't have to adulterate with a lot of clay and chalk. I wanted saturated colors.

Pigments are not made for artists. We must pick and choose from what's developed for coloring playground equipment, painting road markers, cars, houses, anywhere lightfast colors are needed. Then we have to eliminate the toxic ones. Then experiment with binders, hardeners, softeners, etc. to create a formula for each pigment.

The good news is, I've bottled the moist Pastel Pigment mixture, formula and all for eighteen pigment colors. Now I can roll sticks of any color anytime I want. I have Thousands of colors. And the average price is $1.50 a stick, for the most clean, dazzling colors I've ever seen.

I help people make their own at my workshops using my Moist Pastels.

Kitty

can you say how cost effective making your own is? Cheaper? More expensive? About the same? I always wondered what kind of prices pure pigments bring and where to even get them.

What's your ratio/recipe of ingredients? Do you have a rule of thumb?

Sooz

llis

03-13-2004, 10:19 AM

Thanks for posting the information about your moist pastels pigments Kitty. I've been meaning to mention them myself.

For those of you that have not already seen the "make pastel workshop article", here is a link. Yes, you can make your own pastels...and it's really fun!

Making Handmade Pastels (http://www.wetcanvas.com/Articles2/11/293/)

Paula Ford

03-15-2004, 03:35 PM

SCHMINCKE, SCHMINCKE, SCHMINCKE, SCHMINCKE, SCHMINCKE, SCHMINCKE, SCHMINCKE, SCHMINCKE, SCHMINCKE, SCHMINCKE, SCHMINCKE, SCHMINCKE,

Can you tell I love my SCHMINCKE'S??? :D

Charles Perera

05-21-2004, 05:46 PM

Khadres

05-21-2004, 07:33 PM

I am a Rembrandt fan, I haven't used any thing else. Tried sennellier, but I dont like it as it is far too brittle and too buttery. I was given a present of a box of Nupastels, which I haven't still used. I read through all the posts to learn a little about Nupastles, and I was disappointed with what I read. Marsha did say some thing encouraging about them though !

Charles

I think NuPastels are okay for underpaintings and such, but they do have several fugitive colors...most of their line isn't considered really light fast. For a harder pastel, I like Polychromos a lot....richer, deeper colors and each one is rated for permanence with Faber Castell's three star system. They are definitely a bit softer than NuPastels, too, but I like that.

I'm also a fan of Rembrandts...can't say they're my favorites, but they are good, decently priced medium texture sticks that are easy to find almost anywhere. While they aren't among the softest brands, sometimes that's exactly what you need...soft, but not too soft. Every painting I've done so far has some Rembrandts in 'em, so I guess they're my workhorse, middle-of-the-road pastels...the old stand-by.

Jamiegossett28

05-22-2004, 10:02 PM

Khadres

05-23-2004, 01:34 PM

What would be a good starter brand for a leisure painter that has no experience with pastels.

Dick Blick has a box of square pastels, and Sanford Prismacolor has a brand of soft pastels. I don't have the money for the premium brands like Schminke, Rembrandt, Sennelier, ect. I need to keep it to a budget but with good quality....still got to buy paper.

I don't like the idea of using fixative because 1) I would be working indoors with little, if any, ventilation, save a run-down airconditioner that don't blow cold air, and maybe a oscilating fan. no exhaust or open windows. just one door and that's it.

I do have an A frame studio easel that tilts forward and has a trough that can catch pastel dust that falls in it (which I will carefull sweep into a jar for tinting watercolor paper or whetever. I don't like waste.

The Prismacolor set, from what I understand, is actually to the old Grumbacher formula, which is very good quality, very soft. Also, awhile back I got set of 64 Mungyo soft half sticks...these are small but very vibrant and soft and only cost $15. I also notice that Curry's mail order has both that set and the full stick set for cheap...if you go to their website, don't forget to take 40% the Canadian prices! They usually ship a minimum sized order (check the amounts) free, too. Stuff from them takes a tad longer because of customs delays, but I've ordered paper, etc. from them and never had to pay any shipping, so that's a plus.

You might also check out the 80 color half stick set offered on Blick's and Jerry's and other mail order sites of Senneliers....quite a good variety of colors and right around $50. And don't forget eBay for Rembrandts! They have sets of those lots cheaper than the stores!

www.dickblick.com
www.currys.com
www.jerrysartarama.com
www.dakotapastels.com
www.ebay.com --search on soft pastels or Rembrandt

Sorry, here's a postscript:
If you do want to use fixative, do what I do....take the painting outside, give it a couple light shots with the fixative spray, then back inside. No problem.

CarlyHardy

05-23-2004, 08:20 PM

I have a new favorite to add to our growing list of favorite brands.

Paul Demarris makes his own pastels and sells them via his website. Recently I emailed him about his process for making his own sanded papers and told him to check out our Pastel forum here at WC!....and he sent me some samples of his handmade pastels.

I highly recommend them....rich bold colors, soft but does not fall apart! Larger size fits well in the hand and gives you quality and size for the price.

Check out his pastels at www.pastelpaul.com

If you do decide to make a purchase, tell him Carly from WetCanvas sent you!!:D

carly
(I don't get a commission....I just love to help when someone has a great product that I know pastelists will love! :D)

Martin de Vore

08-11-2004, 02:55 AM

I like and primarily use Sennelier.

I also agree with Carly about the Paul de Marrais pastels. I tried them and found them to be quite good. So, I can recommend those as well.

And, if I was rolling in money, I'd like a set of Henri Roche pastels.

khourianya

09-10-2004, 07:35 PM

I LOVE the very old grumbacher soft pastels. I treasure my original set, and hunt them down any time there is an artist cleaning house.

I found some Grumbacher in a store here and asked if they could get more in...apparently they are now being made as Prismacolor Soft Pastels.

I have some Rembrandt (a few open stock sticks and a half pastel set). i find that the open stock sticks are really inconsistent and have hard spots in them. the half sticks seem to blend better.

Anyway - personally - I voted Winsor and Newton. They go on so buttery and blend like a dream.

of course, my Senneliers should be arriving any day now....and carly has me intrigued by these Paul deMarrais pastels...I just wrote him to see if he'd ship to canada! :D

Branco

09-11-2004, 06:30 PM

Well it's good to see so many people interested in Soft Pastels

I started my experience with Rembrant, because my father used them and one day with 9 year's old, I picked all the little bit's from his box and I did my first painting... :)

Of course my father thought it was time for me to start painting and he bought my first set of Pastel's (I steel have them) the name is Goya, they are a Spanish brand and they did their porpouse at the time.

Now I use 3 kinds of pastels and 3 different brand's:

Rembrant - For general painting
Van Gogh - For detail
Derwent Pencils - For finer detail's

I'm looking foward to try Unison they have very good colour's, unfortunatly they are not for sale in Portugal.

Regards

Ricardo Branco

brushandknife

09-24-2004, 03:09 PM

undefinedI am new to all this and was thinking of purchasing a set of Yarkas. Then I read some comments on people who thought they were poor, so thought to go another direction. Now, between Virgil's tests and so many opinions, I am totally confused. I would like to try them for doing highly detailed animals, and also perhaps some landscapes. I think I would need something a bit harder for the detail. I don't have alot of money to invest. So, any opinions on what might be the answer for me? I guess the lightfastness thing hasn't made me loose interest anyway. Thanks for any help.

mermaid

09-25-2004, 10:14 AM

I would like to try them for doing highly detailed animals, and also perhaps some landscapes. I think I would need something a bit harder for the detail. I don't have alot of money to invest. So, any opinions on what might be the answer for me? I guess the lightfastness thing hasn't made me loose interest anyway. Thanks for any help.

hi, sure know how you feel -- when you are new to pastels you are not sure which brand to buy! i will echo others' opinions: yarka makes nice watercolors, but TERRIBLE pastels. if money is an issue, i would recommend rembrants. they have good color selection and you can purchase sets defined by type (portrait set, landscape set, general set) and size (from 15 - 30 - 45 or more in a set.) you can render a soft wisp of fur, but they are hard enough to do fine detail. i use rembrants a lot for base coloring in my pastels, then continue with senneliers and great americans. another idea for detail is pastel pencils. i have tried SOOOO many and strongly suggest faber castll pitt pastel pencils (NOT the polychromos). this is the only pastel that i can sharpen in a quality pencil sharpener without breaking. this pastel has no oil, so it goes on just like a regular pastel, but in pencil form. hope this helps you in making your decision. it is really of NO advantage to purchase art supplies by price, you just throw your money away. i speak from experience! good luck!

Khadres

10-04-2004, 05:40 PM

I agree that when money is a major consideration, Rembrandts and even Mungyos are the best alternatives. Those and a few Faber-Castell pastel pencils should give you plenty to do detailed subjects with and then you can gradually add open stock colors of other brands as you can afford to. Check eBay for Rembrandt sets for the best prices...the portrait set would probably be quite useful for animals, but the general assortments are great too.

K Taylor-Green

10-10-2004, 11:00 AM

I started with Rembrandt and Widsor & Newton. I added some Senneliers and Schminckes from open stock. I really don't care for the Senneliers, too soft. I like the Schminckes.
But I ordered a set of Geraults, and fell in love!! Naturally, :rolleyes: as they are not exactly cheap!! But Jerry's now has them in open stock, so that is a big help. They are a little softer than Rembrandts, but the colors are much richer. Giraults and Wallis. Yep, I definitly have champagne tastes!! :D

Katherine T

10-10-2004, 12:40 PM

I started with Rembrandt - but found them a bit too hard for some things I wanted to do. I then started using Rowney when I found out they had some really good coloured greys (thanks to Jackie Simmonds :clap: who put me on to that one). Then I got some odd sticks of Scminke and Sennelier - but truth told - find them a bit too soft. The elecric blue does a great sky though.

And then I got my first Unison pastels back in the mid-nineties. And that was it. I now have almost the complete set (and am horrified every time I think what I've spent) but they're worth it and complete boxes come in handy present sizes! :D The very first painting I sold (in the US as it happens) was done using the Unison pastels and I think that the way in which they helped to unify the painting really helped to turn a really awful painting done on the spot into something which was worth selling (or maybe I mean buying?).

This summer I was really pleased to find that they've now started producing a darks box and a lights box - and they are the only make I know which has got smooth darks which work really well.

Example of the dark greens in the painting below.

I'm so commited to my Unisons that I'd prefer to lose the suitcase with my clothes in when going on a flight than my Unisons - which have to travel with me at all times!

Katherine

corleone2004

10-16-2004, 07:51 PM

I"m surprised to see that so many people like Rembrant pastels. I find them just too hard. Maybe it's because when I was learning pastels, I used lots of Canson and other papers, not surfaces you would consider really toothy. But I still prefer the softer pastels - I think the colors are richer that harder pastels. It's almost like you can see the "buttery-ness" in the work - not just some flat color. ... I guess it might have something to do with the thick layers that can be built up.
Half-stick sets are a great way to test our a pastel set without to large an investment. You still will get a good range of colors - so you can actual paint something, rather than just doodle with one or two sticks. The color vary amoug manufacturers, too, so with different sets, you actually expand your palet, too. Just my 2-cents worth.

gnu

10-29-2004, 11:38 PM

Here's what I just bought..I try to keep my hands off the pastel so I'm not touching my eyes..so I use pencils..it was pressie day today..(spending the spoils of my art labour!)
Faber- Castell..Pitt pastel pencils set of 36..( ;) I won't tell you how much they cost :eek: )
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Oct-2004/7242-IMG_8644_Ppencils_sm.jpg
BTW..how come there is no decent deep cherry red here?? Is it hard to find in pastel pencil?
so you'll see some more stuff from me over summer, when I can get outside to work..

Dream_weaver

11-01-2004, 12:38 PM

I'm new, to this site and to pastels. Thought this would be a "safe" area to get my toes wet in conversation. I'm here to learn from you all...and so far you all are great teachers!
I was in "sticker shock" with the portrait Sennelier...I found that they are really nice. One stick was very hard and wouldn't transfer to paper. The company I bought it from replaced it (very grateful). I have also ventured into some Unison. Love the big fat sticks. I also have a few Great American pastels. Wonderful...smooth as butter.
I must admit, I am not loyal to any brand...it really depends on the colors they offer and how they apply. At this stage of my game, it's experimentation both with pastels and papers.

Zarathustra

11-03-2004, 11:29 AM

I love unison for their thick creamy and soft vibrancy, but I tend to use Jaxells more.

terence p

12-03-2004, 11:44 PM

I am also a recent member and this is my first time sending a message. Hope it goes through. I am a portrait artist and like using a combination of nupastels, prismacolor soft (formerly grumbacker), schmincke, and unsion.
I find the sennilier too fragile for me. I used to use only cason papers, but find the Wallis sand more suitable for the soft pastels.

I am attempting to attach a sample of my work

catlady

12-07-2004, 10:27 PM

:cat: :cat: :cat: Hello ...I am also returning to pastels after a long time...last used grumbacher...now am trying diane townsend and Unison...have a set of rembrandt [18] and small half stick set of sennilier...
I am being very conservative.buying single colors when I can..I love townsends colors and unisons consistency and vibrancy...expensive though..am buying from fineartstore.com...out of rochester ny....unison sets of17 are 60 bucks and the townsends are 3.88 per stick and can be ordered by stick...also have Roche from FRance I believe... ordered this week...an old post on this thread gave a site...jacksonart.com...where unisons could be brought pretty cheaply overseas...but that was in 2001...our dollar has lost so much value there I am afraid to buy....but fineartstore.com has great site where you see the colors of townsends very clearly and I love her earthy values...use wallis paper but must layer or lose lots of the soft pastel...this thread has been very helpful to me...thanks to everyone :wave:

PAKI

12-11-2004, 01:16 PM

I am currently using NuPastels (great for beginning stages), Rembrandt (works well in some middle stages midvalues), Schminke (I like the feel). I tried Yarka (YUK). Carbello pencils (fantastic for detail). I am still on my journey and look forward to using many others. I am also considering making my own. Lots of great feedback in this thread. I am enjoying reading the experiences of so many other pastel-passionates. What a fantastic medium.

catlady

12-18-2004, 04:41 PM

Hello...I am writing again re: jacksonart.com out of England...their prices are still good..great!!!! :clap: :clap: ...I have been buying unisom from finearts.com and they are much more but they were good with their backorders...not charging me doublle s and H......thanks for the info.....does anyone out there use watercolor paper to use for pastel....I have read that some do....any ideas on this?...Catlady :wave:

Kathryn Wilson

12-27-2004, 08:53 AM

Hi Catlady - many pastelists do use watercolor paper with an underpainting of watercolor or gouache - you might want to ask your paper questions in the Soft Pastel forum - you are more apt to get more feedback to your questions there. The thread you have posted in is in the Pastel Library and is more for reference than for asking questions. :wave:

catlady

12-28-2004, 08:12 PM

Thank you Kyle....xmas is over...PHEW.....can we paint now?...I will check the soft pastel forum...I am pretty new to using the site even though I started two years ago...oh dear.... :cat:

scribblet

12-29-2004, 09:03 AM

Hi, I hope this is the right forum for this question.

Could someone tell me if Conte Crayons are the same as pastels? I have a few light colours which I bought just for fun to use as backgrounds for calligraphy. They are very chalky and messy so havn't used them much but am wondering if they are different to the pastels talked about in here.

thanks a lot
Kathy

Kathryn Wilson

12-29-2004, 09:10 AM

Catlady, I know what you mean - all of December passed by and I did not paint one thing, other than my Christmas card. Hope 2005 is productive for both of us - :D

Kathy - Contes are considered pastels, but mostly for sketching purposes. The better pastels used currently by our pastel artists are listed in this thread - Schmincke, Great American, Unison, Girault, Rembrandt and so on.

Paula Ford

12-29-2004, 10:23 AM

I really love Art Spectrum Pastels! Their darks are wonderful. Went to Hobby Lobby a couple of days ago and noticed they have started selling them!! They come in "6-packs" for approx. $15.99. Lots of choices also! Thought I'd let everybody know.

Happy Pastelling in 2005!!

Paula

Kathryn Wilson

12-29-2004, 10:28 AM

Art Spectrum has some wonderful colors not produced by companies in the US - particularly suited, of course, to the Australian environment. They tend to be in the "medium" range of hard-to-soft pastels.

Artistic Mom

12-31-2004, 07:45 PM

They carry them at www.fineartstore.com They sent me a catalog.They are very expensive.

catlady

01-02-2005, 08:54 PM

Try Jacksonart.com out of england...Carly Clements suggested it, their prices are much better even with shipping...Kathy

latin brush

01-10-2005, 03:06 PM

I don't have much optiones in pastels where I live, but I found Fabriano Tiziano pastels..anybody tried it? What do you think?
Thanx

Jackie

rn2952

02-06-2005, 04:56 PM

I personly feel that all pastel have there place. I made the mistake of asking a well known artist what he thought was the best. boy did I get a earfull

Oriane

02-20-2005, 02:29 PM

I just recently started pastels and I purchased mostly Rembrandt, with a couple of Unison. I really like them all, but the Unison is definitely more buttery as opposed to the dryer, more powdery Rembrandts.

I also really love working in Conte crayons. Are they considered pastels by 'real pastel artists' (as opposed to mixed-media junkies, like me?) :)

toozygoot

02-24-2005, 01:58 PM

Forgive my naive question please but here goes. I have a 96 box of Nupastels and from what I gather in my brief reading of this thread is that they are pretty much only good for laying down your background. So if I am to add a finer line of pastels, is there an easy answer to what colors and how many? Boy! Even to me that sounds like a dumb question to ask! Anyway, the types of things I would do would pretty much include waterscapes, rocks, trees and tropical flowers. I am really inexperienced and don't even know that I have the talent for what I think is a very dificult and unforgiving medium. Also, is there a recommended paper for beginners who may be overzealous in the use of their pastels?

Thanks for even reading this chapter! :D And thanks in advance for any help you might have for me.

pat

Kathryn Wilson

02-24-2005, 04:00 PM

Hi Pat - not a dumb question at all. Let me see if I can help. First off, Nupastels are good for laying down the first layer of color - they are considered hard pastels in the scheme of things.

Next, most of the manufacturers make up boxes of pastels and colors suited to a certain type of painting - I figure they do this to help out beginners in choosing colors. Rembrandt would be a good set for you to start out with - it's a medium soft pastel and good for beginners and the price is excellent. I think they have a landscape set available, as do other manufacturers.

Paper is one of the most important things you can choose - buy the best paper you can afford. Here is a list of the best to the not-so-good-to-use- but-most-economical.

Wallis
Art Spectrum
Canson

There are other papers that are similar, but these are the best known. Wallis and Art Spectrum are sanded papers and in my judgment if you can afford either, it would be best to start with these. If economics are important, Canson is a smooth, colored paper that works okay, but it does not take many layers for the tooth to fill up.

Hope this helps.

toozygoot

02-24-2005, 04:12 PM

Thanks Kat! That helps alot! I will definitely go with the sanded papers since I know that will be important. The smooth would probably just frustrate me. I really appreciate this and maybe someday I can contribute a piece to this forum.

pat

Kathryn Wilson

02-24-2005, 04:24 PM

Dick Blick is a good place to get your pastels online, and the paper. You can order Wallis paper directly from Kitty Wallis as she is one of our Industry Partners and her banner appears on WC frequently.

aszurblue

03-19-2005, 08:38 AM

Paula Ford

03-19-2005, 09:46 AM

Here's nother silly question for you...... Both Michales and Arron Brothers are pushing a brand called Alphacolor. I'v never heard of it before. Not much info. on the packageing eather. The price is cheeper than Nupastels, but not tried eather one. Any thoughts on this?

As someone told me once a long time ago, Alphacolor is like road chalk, meaning it's not a good kind.

I have lots of Dick Blick brand pastels and I still use them every time I sit down to paint. They are very economical.

Paula

aszurblue

03-19-2005, 09:01 PM

Oh Yes I agree, Dick Blick is the place to shop!!! But I still like to look. :D

HarvestMoon

03-21-2005, 12:36 PM

I truly love the Great American pastels, and the Mount Vision Pastels are a dream come true- they are big and wonderful- similar to unison but about twice the size with rich color and much less expensive. :clap:

gilbertus

04-04-2005, 04:45 PM

i feal out numbered here...it seems im the only guy here

HarvestMoon

04-14-2005, 01:29 PM

gilbertus, which brand do you like? why do you feel so alone- I searched and could not fine what you liked the best...

Kathryn Wilson

04-14-2005, 01:40 PM

i feal out numbered here...it seems im the only guy here

Why not join us in the Pastel Forum - you have posted in the Pastel Library, where we keep all important past posts. There are a good percentage of men on our forum, and you will make one more! So come on over!

HarvestMoon

04-15-2005, 07:04 PM

Has anyone actually bitten the $15 a stick bullet and tried the Henri Rochi pastels? If so, are they really worth that? How do they compare to other brands? for $1500 for a 90 piece (or so) set I would think you would have to be selling your art frequently and for a bundle... please let me know!
cheers,
purples

Brad121

09-09-2005, 09:01 AM

I voted for Schminke not because I have many, but I was introduced to their products through a visit to Jacksonsart where they they had some samples. I found the buttery and vibrant nature of the pastels excellent.

I've just purchased a fair few of Rowney's so these will be my stock in trade ones for the time being.

Up to now, i've mostly used Reeves, which I found vibrant, chalky and fairly hard, at least in comparison to the Schminke ones. All in all I liked them, especially the price.

I hear that Reeves is another label for a cheaper brand of Winsor & Newton, Whether this is true, I don't know. I certainly find the Reeves products well made.

I must say i'm rather dissapointed having read Virgil Elliott information pertaining to lightfastness. More information on that would be of great interest. (Incidentally looking at Virgil's pastels of the naked lady, certainly gives me a standard to which to strive. Outstanding, I would hope he comes back and tells us that such a painting took him at least a year to produce! Give me some encouragement please...)

In practical terms though, how often is a pastel or any other painting exposed continually to the bright light of south facing window?
People who look after their art would generally place it in a more sheltered locations, so as to prevent shine from straying light. Certainly even Turner's watercolours at the Tate are protected and I believe not on show all the year around so as to preserve them. Saying that my art is to be seen, I say let it be seen, enjoy it, that's why I produce it. Hopefully they'll last awhile but in the mean time, at least I hope that my pictures are enjoyed.

Brad Gerrard

Brad121

09-14-2005, 09:10 AM

BlackFox

09-15-2005, 09:27 PM

I love giraults. I don't even need anything else. They are wonderful medium soft pastels, and go on evenly. Kind of pricy, though...

Mike_Beeman

09-16-2005, 11:18 AM

I agree with Juvie...experiment with several brands to find those that suit you and what your doing best...but don't forget to try the Great American's in that mix!

Virgil Elliott

09-17-2005, 01:52 AM

Incidentally, there are some outstanding examples of 18th century pastel paintings hanging in some notable galleries. They seem to be standing up to the damaging light.

Permancy of colours with a good brand of pastel, doesn't appear to be too much problem.

Brad

Brad,

The question is, which brands do you consider good brands? Reputation and archival quality do not necessarily go hand in hand. Wouldn't it be better to proceed from a standpoint of actual knowledge than on no more basis than an unsubstantiated belief that you hope will ultimately prove to be true?

Which brands do you suppose those 18th century pastels were made with? I surmise that the pastels used were made by the artists who painted the pictures, from the same pigments that were used in oil paints in the 18th century. Can we assume that today's pastels are the same as those? Another question is, how would we know what those paintings looked like when they were painted, in order to make a valid determination regarding whether or not any of the colors had faded?

Virgil Elliott

NOYB

09-29-2005, 06:04 AM

So isnt the question about permanentcy pretty much pointless since we will probably never know if the artists back then made their own pastels or not, or if they use the same pigments we use now?

The whole discussion about Lightfast pastels is and will be forever on going. BUT, NO ARTIST should let any of those discussions stop them from working/learning/ENJOYING such a wonderful medium such as pastels. Everything has its limitations, and nothing will last forever, enjoy what you have and dont waste time worrying if your painting is gonna fade in a hundred years. If your that worried about it, then your taking the enjoyment out of it and maybe should move on to another medium. But they come with warnings too.

It wont matter how many Lightfast tests are made, what is proven fugative or permanent, the materials will still be made and artists will still buy them. If the manufacturers were that "worried" about it, they wouldnt give second thoughts to "student grade". And i do not believe that all these pastel manufacturers are going to change anything significantly just to please someone who refuses to use their products until they make them "just right", for THEM. Products evolve everyday, and most of the manufacturers have been in the business longer than any of us have been artists. I think artists should believe in themselves and their knowledge of whatever medium they choose to work in and NOT in the opinion of another. The only way you will learn is if you do it yourself. (though honestly most of these "tests" are done in a window with full blown sunlight on them, and i really dont know any art buyer that would hang their original art in such a fashion, would defeat the purpose). If you want to test your goods, paint something, hang it where ever the best view is for the thing, and wait 10 to 20 years and see if it fades. Now thats practical testing. Who gives a fig about what they used back in the 18th century , this is 2005 its time to move on and stop worrying about who used what many moons ago. :rolleyes:

Nikki

Forgot to add, i like all pastel brands for their diversity. Long skinny hard ones for their useage with details and sketches, fat stubby soft ones for their quick ease of laying down color, the in between for those "in between" phazes ;)

Virgil Elliott

09-29-2005, 03:30 PM

So isnt the question about permanentcy pretty much pointless since we will probably never know if the artists back then made their own pastels or not, or if they use the same pigments we use now?

Nikki,

No, it isn't pointless at all, unless you don't care what your pastel paintings are going to look like in a few years. If you don't care, the people who might buy them from you will, and they will be very unhappy with you if the colors change. It's a matter of professionalism. Of course, if you don't sell your pastel paintings, and are just doing it for fun, then considerations of professionalism need not enter the picture, and permanency need not be an issue. It all depends on how serious you are about your art.

Regarding the artists of centuries ago who used pastels, I can assure you that they did not use any of the modern pigments that were not in existence in their time, which pigments are often used in modern-day pastel sets. So whether they made their own pastels or someone else made them for them, it would not make any difference, because there still would not be any modern synthetic pigments in them. Whereas the sets we can buy today do have modern synthetic pigments in them, and the question then becomes, which ones? Some of these are more lightfast than others, and unless the manufacturers care about lightfastness, they are just as apt to use the bad ones as the good ones. What compels a manufacturer to care about permanency/lightfastness is consumers (artists) caring about those issues, and becoming knowledgeable about them, and insisting on only buying the products that hold up over time. That's what ASTM standards are all about, including ASTM lightfastness ratings. If the pastels are rated ASTM Lightfastness I, we can be reasonably assured that they will not change color for a very long time. ASTM Lightfastness II is the minimum lightfastness rating deemed acceptable for fine arts applications. Below that rating, products are suitable for commercial art, for students, and for hobbyists who need not be concerned for permanence. That's the way it is with oil paints, acrylics, watercolors, and even colored pencils, all of which have ASTM standards of performance. Pastels deserve the same consideration, and that is why we at ASTM are working on a standard for pastels.

The term, "fine art," carries a connotation of quality. Shoddy materials are not in keeping with the concept of quality. Neither are supposed works of art that deteriorate rapidly.

Virgil Elliott

Virgil Elliott

09-29-2005, 03:48 PM

It wont matter how many Lightfast tests are made, what is proven fugative or permanent, the materials will still be made and artists will still buy them. If the manufacturers were that "worried" about it, they wouldnt give second thoughts to "student grade". And i do not believe that all these pastel manufacturers are going to change anything significantly just to please someone who refuses to use their products until they make them "just right", for THEM.

Nikki,

Well, you're wrong about that, because at least three manufacturers have already reformulated their lines of pastels in order to improve lightfastness, as a direct result of the issue of lightfastness being raised at the ASTM Subcommittee on Artists' Paints and Materials. And that was initiated by one artist speaking up and suggesting it (me).

You mention student grade. Lower lightfastness is considered acceptable for student grade. It is not, nor should it be considered acceptable for artists' grade products. It is reasonable to expect higher quality from artists' grade products than from student grade. The ASTM standard that is currently being worked out is addressed to artists' grade pastels. Once that standard is established, pastel artists will be able to buy pastels that are rated according to ASTM lightfastness, and will have a better way of knowing how long a given color can be expected to hold up, simply by looking for the ASTM Lightfastness I or II rating when they shop for pastels. That's the whole purpose of this. I cannot see any reason for you or any pastel artist to object to having better quality pastels to work with.

Virgil Elliott

Barrynotlarry

12-20-2005, 10:15 PM

Hi gang Barry here to throw in my two cents. I hang out in the figure forum and don't drop by as much as I should. You think I would when all I really do is pastels. I think Mount Vision Pastels and Terry Ludwig are outstanding bargains and I love to use both. Please check out Mount Vision Pastels they are big and bold and a blast to paint with and the dude that runs the show there is super helpful.
I just got a set of Great American pastels and wow these are sooo nice.
Pure butter baby as I always say.
I use all the major brands and like to mix them up and put the real soft ones on top. I have a bunch of those Holbein pastels and think they are really under rated, I use them a lot.
Henri Rochi better come over and model nude for me if they think I'm paying $ 15.00 a stick for any pastel.
The very best pastel are always the home made ones but they are hard work.
Barry

jillchz

01-01-2006, 03:17 PM

what do you look for in pastels, i am wanting to pick them up. i bought some on sale last week. since it is a hobby for me, and i have a limited budget i tried a more economical brand, but i am curious about the more expensive brands.
Jill

mimitabby

01-03-2006, 10:27 AM

Nikki,

Well, you're wrong about that, because at least three manufacturers have already reformulated their lines of pastels in order to improve lightfastness, as a direct result of the issue of lightfastness being raised at the ASTM Subcommittee on Artists' Paints and Materials. And that was initiated by one artist speaking up and suggesting it (me).

Virgil Elliott

Virgil, some time has passed since you did your study. Do you know if any of the major brands have changed their formulas and have you done any further tests?
Thanks
mimi

mimitabby

01-05-2006, 11:22 AM

well, please do keep us posted. Sunlight isn't such a big problem here where I live (seattle) but it would still be a drag if all my reds and purples faded.
thank you

Virgil Elliott

01-05-2006, 01:39 PM

well, please do keep us posted. Sunlight isn't such a big problem here where I live (seattle) but it would still be a drag if all my reds and purples faded.
thank you

Mimi,

It isn't just sunlight that causes fugitive pigments to fade. If something fades in the sun, it will fade in indoor light, too, it'll just take longer. I suggest testing your pastels yourself, by putting sample swatches on a test panel, covering half of each swatch with black paper, and placing the panel in a south-facing window. Check it once a week or so, and note when the exposed half begins to look different from the covered half. Then you'll have a better idea what colors you can trust.

Virgil Elliott

Kathryn Wilson

01-08-2006, 12:14 AM

Mimi,

Sennelier reformulated at least once since our first round of testing, and so did Rembrandt. Winsor & Newton are in the process right now, and there might well be others, but those are the ones I know about for sure. I haven't done any more tests myself, but Mark Gottsegen has been conducting some of his own, using xenon arc exposure and measuring with scientific instruments. I'll hear more about his testing in a few weeks, when I'll see him at the next ASTM meeting. We're developing a standard that will provide manufacturers with reliable, uniform guidelines for testing their pastels and rating them for colorfastness. It's a slow process.

Virgil Elliott

Hi Virgil - I just happened to read your posts in this forum - this information is so vital to all of us would you mind posting in the regular Pastel Talk forum when you get the new information at the ASTM meeting? I know our members will find it interesting and informative.

jmp

01-11-2006, 09:00 AM

freeartist

01-30-2006, 03:33 PM

Hi. I'm rather new at pastels (2000) but have already won a Best of Show, a People's Choice (PSO), inclusion in International Artist's 100 ways to paint a Landscape book (#99) and several first place ribbons among others! I feel I have found my element.

I like the soft pastels, Sennelier being one of my favorites. I haven't tried them all yet; Terry Ludwig provided me with some great samples for a class I was teaching and they're lovely, creamy and smooth.

I started with a VERY old set of Grumbacher from my mother, and my first set of "good" pastels was Rembrandt. I thought I'd hit paydird with those until I discovered that the Rembrandts are my workhorses, and the Unison, Schminke, Sennelier, are the frosting for my expressive seascapes.

Try a few softer pastels and see for yourself. I'd LOVE to be a rep for Sennelier pastels!

Crickyricky

02-02-2006, 01:40 PM

I began using Pastels in the late 50's. Early on it didn't matter too much which brand as there were only rembrandt's available. As I interchanged between oil and pastel, I wanted different things from Pastels. I am not interested in the repetitive small lines/strokes. I want more impasto, 'painterly' qualities, many more layers and the ability to control them to a desired effect. At one time Sennelier was my best, then I found Schminke and felt I was in Heaven. Unison came next -- gorgeous colors, but no matter how long I am away from them, when I pick one up and use it -- there is an odor that they give off that I don't like. I have never been able to find out what causes that. Then, at an early IAPS convention I found Great American --luscious colors -- their 'Gray Box' and consistent workability without crumbling (a Sennelier characteristic). So, my favorite is Great American -- been using them ever since.

Cricket

Donna A

02-17-2006, 02:29 PM

some great papers- art spectrum, which is a sandy coating on watercolor paper- lets you get great detail, ( there'are a few papers like this made by different companys...also, ampersand pastel board is awesome- you don't have to mount the paper, it's already a "board" and you can get layer after layer of pastel. unless you have a huge art supply store like Pearl in your area, you'll probably have to mail order. but it's worth it, I never work on regular paper anymore!

The Art Spectrum Colourfix papers you mention are really amazing for a number of reasons! There are 16 colors (plus a new Natural), and they come in 3 different sizes: 40"x28", the original 28"x 20" and 12"x9". AND the sanded primer that is silkscreened on to the archival wc paper surface also comes in Jars---in all the colors and Clear! Plus you can mix them or tint them for any color you want! You can paint or roller it straight on to untempered masonite, etching and other papers and boards in any size you want. Many recover disappointing watercolors with the Primer to turn it into a great, fresh painting surface! And you can watercolor, oil paint, use acrylics, charcoal and graphite---all manner of different mediums on it! Another thing you can do is sand the paper down, a little or a lot, to give a more velvety or suede-like surface. Still will hold the pastels or other mediums beautifully. Colourfix also comes as Boards, a much weightier surface. And there is a brand new Plein Air Painting Board in Art Spectrum Colourfix, 16"x20" and frames easily in the field for frames of that size or 12"x16" with mat. This also comes in all the colors and is sold individually packaged in a clear, resealable envelope. Colourfix Primer can be rolled on or brushed on, to achieve interesting textures. AND---another plus----if there is a particular area on a pastel paper that turns out to be a disaster, you can just sand it down a bit and brush on matching Primer to freshen up the area and begin again! Really useful if you are making use of the paper or board's ground color in the painting. Erasing or rubbing off color dirties up the ground color. With the Primer, you can make an invisible "patch." (They'll never know!) :-) I have found the Art Spectrum Colourfix to be just an amazing working surface! And gives me so many options. It's a blessing and a delight! I love it for oil painting, as well! Use it often! Frames easily without glass when used for my oils. And gives a fascinating surface for watercolors and acrylics, etc! I love the Art Spectrum Pastels, as well. I have over 4700 different sticks of colors from most every brand on the planet----and I always reach for the Art Spectrums first! They are marvelous! And the AS Oils and Watercolors, as well. All of them VERY heavily pigmented with some wonderful pigment and color choices.
Happy Painting! Donna Aldridge, www.aldridgestudios.com

pamfb

02-27-2006, 01:03 PM

JEM_ART

02-28-2006, 01:17 AM

Although I am lucky enough to have large sets of several brands of pastel, I am using Mt. Vision more and more lately. The slightly gritty texture lets me build up several layers even on uncoated paper. And I really like some of the brilliant greens. The Mt. Vision web site has 10 new colors not in standard sets and currently a great sale on 400 pastels. There are 285 colors made now so that includes a reserve to draw on for replacements or gifts.The best buy I've found on smaller sets is on Greg Biolchini's web site.
He offers his 75 piece Mt. Vision workshop set for $150 with free shipping.
I've been doing lots of extra sampling of pastel brands lately. While Mount Vision offers a "huge honker" of a pastel, and as Greg B points out in his dvd "you get the most pigment for your money", the grittiness of this brand is exactly what I don't like. My favorites currently are Great American, Unison, and Rembrant. For my needs, these brands take care of what I need for quality, layering, range of color, and diversity in terms of softness to hardness range. I find unison particularly amazing for layering, and I also find that Great American layers well over unison. I love a smooth pastel. I can't wait until the Great Amricans are all made in rectangular shape. That will be full monty time for me. BTW, I just ordered a full set of unisons from jackson in the UK at tremendous savings.

Jon

lps540

03-04-2006, 10:56 AM

[quote=Virgil Elliott]I recently tested three panels of pastels from various manufacturers for ASTM, exposing them to the sun in a south-facing window in California for over a year as an accelerated-aging test to see what fades, how badly, and what holds its color.
/quote]

Thanks for sharing your research.

What has your research done to prove that there is a continuum of damage from full sun to indoors. In other words, if I sit in the sun for 8 hours I will burn badly. If I sit inside for 100 years, I will never burn, not even at at a slower rate. Either the relationship between sun light and damage is continuous as you maintain (linear or otherwise) or it is non-linear (meaning that a threshold has to be crossed in order for damage to occur). Has your research delved into this aspect?

Have you done similar tests with swats of oil paint? I was under the impression that oil paint had their own problems with yellowing and cracking and this was the reason that pastels were touted as having more longevity, due to the lack of oil in the stick; witnessed by pastels paintings from the 16th century maintaining their vibrancy.

Thanks for the topic.
Larry

simon collins

03-11-2006, 03:53 AM

Guys, seriously, no other brand can compete with Schminke !
Ok, they are a bit more expensive than most, but they go
a long long way & have such luminosity.
Just check these last two pieces of mine.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Mar-2006/76462-Beady_birdy_watching_briney.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Mar-2006/76462-Couch_potato.jpg

Kathryn Wilson

03-11-2006, 08:08 AM

Simon, those are wonderful paintings! I hope to see you in our regular forum with more.

I agree, I do love Schminkes, but I find I can't use them as a base - I start out with the harder pastels and gradually build up toward Schminkes and use them last. We all paint differently so that's just my quirky method of working.

gentle artist

03-11-2006, 07:50 PM

i use unison, sennelier, rembrandt, art spectrum, and schmincke. schminck is best for the last layer of pastel because they are very soft. i love them. sennelier are a touch harder and their colors are gorgeous...however they do tend to crumble. rembrandt i use for undepainting...they are probably the best of the mid range hardness. unison is a good all around semi soft pastel and art spectrum is a small bit harder than rembrandt and have some colors i love, especially the violets. i have tried many brands and have come to assemble some sets and some individual pastels not in sets. it is best to try before you buy. it is a very personal preference as to which are best.
linda b