so erotic work here also?

[DFGray]

18 x 24 pastel from life
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Jun-2001/erotk1.jpg

Regards
Dan

[djstar]

Gosh you are easily turned on!
That is just what might be called lucky in open studio.
Now the inverse on a male is what I call unfortunate!
Hold on, I think I have an example:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Jun-2001/ted.jpg

This is old Ted. He used to snore. Now some folks may have called it a stunning view, but I think he just needed a nap that day!
Sorry, I digress..

Yours is really lovely vibrant study, as most of your pieces are. There is a shimmery excitement in that spunky rear, but I would not lower it to erotic. I would call it art and leave it at that!
Good piece, thanks for letting my mind wander with you...
dj*

[TeAnne]

Dan, I think this is the best one of yours that I have ever seen....Excellent

------------------
ART by TeAnne On Ebay (http://members.ebay.com.au/aboutme/teannep/)
I must make a piece of art everyday for my own well being.

[Mario]

Hi,I see lot's of problems with this figure.The background is too busy and distracting, the figure dosen't sit well on the sofa...seems to be floating...the head is too cartooney, the woman is generic and has no specific identity/features, the foreshortening of the body seems off...The same amount of touches could have been better applied with honest observation. it looks like, in every decision, you took the easy way out.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and if you like it, fine.
I am an art student ....I hear these same critiques of my own work in every class I take...I consider myself very lucky.

------------------
"Paint light and dark masses, not edges. Later,You can always draw edges around objects, if you want...
Paint abstract shapes of color...
When painting onto a flat surface, think flat shapes of color. Don't try to paint around an object. We're not sculpting...think; flat, flat,flat." - Christine LaFuente...(this coaching was given in a workshop on 'still life' and would also apply to 'portrait' and 'figure' studies)

[Robert]

Well, I don't see any eroticism in either of them - I see two fine studies from two fine artists.
Mean it!

[Mario]

Hi Djstar, I agree with your post 100%, and I would have written the exact same words if presenting the other side of the issue...I want to be able to do both...be in the moment and bringing a more and more sensitive response to the subject...I feel, that if we just say..."wow, great" ...when we really see where it could have done much more, we do a dis service...whatever amount of time it took to do the piece..

------------------
"Paint light and dark masses, not edges. Later,You can always draw edges around objects, if you want...
Paint abstract shapes of color...
When painting onto a flat surface, think flat shapes of color. Don't try to paint around an object. We're not sculpting...think; flat, flat,flat." - Christine LaFuente...(this coaching was given in a workshop on 'still life' and would also apply to 'portrait' and 'figure' studies)

[djstar]

WHEW! I was sweating this.
Thanks for your kind and understanding reply. I know this forum is sort of your baby so I am glad you understand my defense of the process.
That said, I guess you will be a tough one to please. I promise I won't cry if you are hard on me. But I am a fragile little personality quite comfortable with posting anonymously online but scared of hitting the streets on my own. I have an easier time defending others than my self, so SOFT gloves, please!
dj*

[djstar]

Mario, I wonder if you attend any open studio sessions? All of your criticisms are valid in a sense, but what DF does so well is capture the moment. I would bet, from his output, this was probably no more that 15 or 20 minutes with the pose.
I bet his space was a decision between set ups to carry the energy into the upper section, the time needed to fully render a white sheet around a well placed leg is just not happening.
If you feel the head was cartoony you are missing the moment.
The real joy of the study is that it is NOT about decisions. It is about cutting out the critical part of the brain that makes the sort of decisions you talk about and allowing a communication between the eye and hand. This is autonomic art. It is instinct. It bypasses the stuff you are talking about. It is not the finished piece it is a glorious rection with color and shape to information over which we usually have no control.
I think your point about being in the eye of the beholder is very valid and I may or may not agree with some of your points, but I want to let those who are NOT able to get out to draw from life what a wholly different experience it is an how we hold our breath and dive right it!
Each time amazes us! Remember we are sharing more of an experience than most, it is very out of control, it is viceral, not intellectual.
Ok, I am done. AND I think all I wanted to take exception to in your post was the use of the word DECISION in context of the piece.
If I caused a flame, I really did not mean to, just wanted to make clear what this art is about.
(Shut up deb! OK!)
dj*

[This message has been edited by djstar (edited June 16, 2001).]

[Oberschlake]

Yeah, we have to recognize a study as a study and judge it accordingly..it's a very nice and vibrant sketch and would make for a great painting, where corrections could be made. And, of course it could them become a bit more erotic depending on it's handling of paint.

djstar: I couldn't help but notice your choice of words in your first post "lower it to erotic"? Is erotic art less of an art? In any case, I agree that this isn't it! I just posted a painting of mine in the public critique forum and the very next message was an announcement reminding people that serious and tasteful erotic art was allowed. I'm a very new member here and I think I may be unintentionally ruffling some feathers! I don't even consider myself an erotic artist.

(excellent sketch of yours too, dj!!)

[MichaelRH]

Originally posted by Oberschlake
Yeah, we have to recognize a study as a study and judge it accordingly..it's a very nice and vibrant sketch and would make for a great painting, where corrections could be made. And, of course it could them become a bit more erotic depending on it's handling of paint.

djstar: I couldn't help but notice your choice of words in your first post "lower it to erotic"? Is erotic art less of an art? In any case, I agree that this isn't it! I just posted a painting of mine in the public critique forum and the very next message was an announcement reminding people that serious and tasteful erotic art was allowed. I'm a very new member here and I think I may be unintentionally ruffling some feathers! I don't even consider myself an erotic artist.

(excellent sketch of yours too, dj!!)

Oberschlake. I just wanted to welcome you to Wetcanvas. I imagine there are a few of us who might "ruffle some feathers" from time to time (NOT ME THOUGH!!! :rolleyes: ).

I think your comments have been thoughtful and sincere..and very open-minded.

I think the (potential!) argument as to whether erotic-art is some how a lower kind of art than "fine-art" or other kinds of art...has been the fuel for debate (in various forms) over in the debate forum. The distinctions we all hold dear, as to where paintings belong (categorically) often makes for very interesting discussion. There are quite often many cross-over paintings...which I feel belong in multiple categories.

I also view Dan's study...as a some what informal...but it is the simplicity of his drawing (and the patterns of color) that caught my eye. The figure seems idealized more so, than real. I agree with you Oberschlake, that this was part of Dan's goal. (?)

dj, I agree with your assessment of Dan's drawing also...it lacks some of the more formal considerations. Again, I believe Dan is aware of this...I'm guessing also, that it was more of a quick study...capturing the "moment"/atmosphere.

I think Mario's assessment is also valid....from a much more formal approach.

btw dj, I was laughing when you mentioned your model....snores.

During long poses, I have also been on-hand, when models...just drift away!! (Nothing wrong with that right...!! Usually very little movement while they are asleep! ;) I also like your drawing dj...you were un-daunted by the foreshortening. Great angles in that pose don't you think?

[DFGray]

hello all,
interesting reaction, 1/2 hr pose with a favorite model and 3 other artists, the drapery set up in a studio, we were hoping for a
session that might give us something erotic for an upcoming show,in this pose the model was having a hard time with the cushions kept slipping so the critisim re floating above drapery is right. this piece was rejected from a figure exhibit, I have 3 others from that session I'll post one more anyway.
thanks and regards
Dan

[Cindy]

Originally posted by djstar
but I would not lower it to erotic. I would call it art and leave it at that!


I don't consider erotica a lower art form.

This piece is awesome! The colors are great and the lines are senual. Excellent foreshortening too!

[ZOTMA]

ditto on Cindy's reply....
always like seeing your work

[djstar]

Since we are up again, I just wanted to let you all know there was a sequencing problem. The post DIRECTLY to mario came before his reply and the one that starts WHEW came after.
Have no idea how the shuffle occured but the two of us are at peace and DF knows I love him!
dj*
BTW, Did I say "lower" sorry. I meant LIMIT as in narrow the scope of criticism. It was not meant as a degradation in style or content.
Most people are fighting to get figure study OUT of the realm of porn, so saying "erotic" cinches in the noose that strangles the art of the human form. Not my judgement which in actuality, may go to the less shocking, but a label that I wish would not be tossed around lightly, erotic gets really personal and contoversial and is totally valid. This is and excellent figure study. I hope it turns on the gang if that is what they look for!
dj*2

[DFGray]

Hello to the art world. I am not Dan but his daughter just using this login to post a reply. I am amazed at the responses and feel the desire to comment on my own. This piece has been hanging around here for a while and has been one of my favourites of my father's quick figure studies. I personally love how the skin shines. The beauty of her back catches my eye. The catlike stretch of her back as the left shoulder is pulled forward and the mysterious look that is hooded by those lashes.

I think this is one of the finer pieces but I am biased. I prefer an aesthetically pleasing piece over a biologically correct or natural piece. I prefer a Bougereau over a Gauguin. I am a fan of impressionism and over-all I would call Dan an Impressionist. I love to stand in the living room and turn a full circle, taking the time to slowly let the paintings individually talk to me, slowly letting the moment of the piece wash off the canvas and surround me. I am a FIRM believer that one of the best things about my Dad's paintings are the individual moments that tend to get captured by the dancing, vivid colours.
Digitally I find the best way to do this is to save the piece, then set it to your screensaver or background and to sit for a moment, gradually taking in the piece and testing it out on your eyes then to squint and try to make out details while it is a blur in your eyes. This may seem silly (I would like other's opinion about this) but it does seem to work for me and the paintings seem to come to life.

The water scenes are especially good for this, try this on for size.

btw. I quite liked the painting dj.

[Mario]

Hi, Surely you paint, don't you? With such a sophisticated process of observing a painting you must be even more involved...must be impossible to get that 'up close and personal' to a painting and not get a hankering to try one yourself. I'm betting that you are a painter too...and why not register and keep posting? I hope you're not too busy..oh and that was surely Not Bougereau you prefer..{I am CRAZY for Gauguin.} Anyway, I would love to hear more of your comments and to see some of your work...

[DFGray]

Indeed I am often inspired to the visual arts but am far too private about it to post now, I am working on it, I have a few pieces in progress but it will take me some time until I am ready for so public a forum.

Thank you for the response.

What is your work like?

[Sam Cree]

I like this drawing and am not willing to be too critical of it, there is a nice feel, IMO, for the subject.

I don't see it as that erotic either, yet, but then, I think erotic is in "the eye of the beholder" ;-)

To tell you the truth, I believe portraying something truly erotic is a good bit harder than ordinary figure drawing, it takes quite a bit of thought, not to mention execution.

[Luka]

I don't see it as that erotic either, yet, but then, I think erotic is in "the eye of the beholder" ;-)

Both CFGray and djstar's paintings are gone.

Maybe they were found to be too erotic in the eyes of a beholder who has a delete button ?

[sandge]

Both CFGray and djstar's paintings are gone.

Maybe they were found to be too erotic in the eyes of a beholder who has a delete button ?
They are not gone.

They were showing as links not images because the way that images are displayed changed when the bulleting board software was updated a couple of years back - this thread is almost 3 years old. You will find the same problem in a lot of old threads. But you can still view the images by copying and pasting the URLs into your browser.

I have updated these ones.

[Luka]

They are not gone.

They were showing as links not images because the way that images are displayed changed when the bulleting board software was updated a couple of years back - this thread is almost 3 years old. You will find the same problem in a lot of old threads. But you can still view the images by copying and pasting the URLs into your browser.

I have updated these ones.

Ahh

Thank you very much, Sandge. :) I knew there had to be an explanation. Just couldn't think of any better way to say it at the time. :D

Actually, I did paste the urls. Tried every trick I know, and just kept getting a message from WC's server that the files did not exist. Even did several different searches on each filename.

I am liable to run into this problem again. I am new here. I love it. I am finding the inspiration I have needed for years. Someone else here described it as finally finding yourself in a place where everyone else is from the same planet.

I have 112 pages of threads to go through. I do not want to miss a single one !!! And here I am, only on page 5.

:D

[Lemnus]

Glad this thread got resurrected. I was just having this discussion with my wife about a female nude I've been working on recently.

I think this piece is erotic, most definitely. I am confident that the model felt sexual stimulation in that pose. That pose is also one of the classic female poses that will normally tease the typical heterosexual male's libido. That pose exhibits raw sexuality.

Now, Djstar's male nude? Little eroticism, if any - guy just crashed out on his back. He is not in an erotic pose.

I think there is a difference between eroticism and pornography, however. The female's pose is not pornorgraphic (by my definition), but it is getting there. The figure is not naturally erotic or pornographic. Artists make it that way through poses and juxtaposition with other elements in the scene.

For people who don't consider this erotic, I'd be interested in reading why they don't think so. If this is not erotic, when does something become erotic for you?

[DFGray]

Hi
having reread string
I found the models idea of what might give us an
erotic study to be the erotic part
how did my kid get involved?
regards
Dan

[DanaT]

Dan, now that Luka's going through from the beginning of the Figure forum, none of our old threads are safe. :D

Oh gosh, what embarassing tripe did I put up here when I first came to WC?

[Luka]

Dan, now that Luka's going through from the beginning of the Figure forum, none of our old threads are safe. :D

Oh gosh, what embarassing tripe did I put up here when I first came to WC?


Dana,

I had written an extensive reply to this, but when I hit the reply button, the server was no longer available. And there was no way to get back to my message, to save it.

I am taking it as a not-so-subtle hint from the forum gods to K.I.S.S.

You are safer than you may think. I wanted to reply to more than a couple dozen threads, but didn't. For various reasons I didn't think my reply warranted ressurrecting an old thread and putting it back up in the face of those who have probably read it several times, when it was new. Reasons like, I figured that some of the replies would be considered pablum. Some of the replies were just me joking and having fun with a fellow artist. Etc...

Different things are important to different people, at different times in their lives. This subject is an important one to me, at this point in my life. I am glad to see that the subject may have some little life in it yet.

However, a year from now, it may not be important to me at all. In fact, a year from now, I may be plumb embarrassed of what I posted today. I try to keep that in mind when I think about making a reply to an old thread. I don't want to be callous to other people's interests.

Are there any other guidelines you could suggest that I keep in mind when thinking about replying ?

Also, can you tell me how I can go about figuring out which particular post a reply was made to... if the replier did not use the name or the quote from the post they were replying to ? I have gotten confused no few times. And it can cut the continuity of a thread.

[DanaT]

Don't worry Luka. If any of us said anything silly on a public forum that everyone with a computer can read, we can hardly complain when someone new responds to one of our older threads and resurrects it. That having been said, its always a little shock to see your own words after a year or two and see how you've changed. That's what I was referring to.

If you do want to reply to an old thread, you might make it known that you know it is an old thread and that people's views, opinions might have changed. Sometimes people respond to an old thread thinking that its a current discussion and when others join in thinking its a current discussion that can cause a lot of confusion.

Welcome to Wetcanvas.

[Luka]

Don't worry Luka. If any of us said anything silly on a public forum that everyone with a computer can read, we can hardly complain when someone new responds to one of our older threads and resurrects it. That having been said, its always a little shock to see your own words after a year or two and see how you've changed. That's what I was referring to.

If you do want to reply to an old thread, you might make it known that you know it is an old thread and that people's views, opinions might have changed. Sometimes people respond to an old thread thinking that its a current discussion and when others join in thinking its a current discussion that can cause a lot of confusion.

Welcome to Wetcanvas.

Ah. A very good point. I will try as much as this old brain will allow, to remember to make that clear.

Thank you.

And thank you for the welcome.

[Lemnus]

Don't worry Luka. If any of us said anything silly on a public forum that everyone with a computer can read, we can hardly complain when someone new responds to one of our older threads and resurrects it. That having been said, its always a little shock to see your own words after a year or two and see how you've changed. That's what I was referring to.

If you do want to reply to an old thread, you might make it known that you know it is an old thread and that people's views, opinions might have changed. Sometimes people respond to an old thread thinking that its a current discussion and when others join in thinking its a current discussion that can cause a lot of confusion.

Welcome to Wetcanvas.

Funny! Have you ever posted much to the old Usenet newsgroups? Google owns all of those now I guess. OMG, they keep stuff forever! Every now and then, when I'm bored I'll do a search and resurrect some threads I remember posting to. Usually I still stand by them, but some are downright embarrassing, especially the ones where I lost my temper in a flamewar. Oh, some of the bitter, bitter thing's I've written (the other person usually deserved it though, and how) - and all that stuff is saved for posterity. :rolleyes:

[Luka]

and all that stuff is saved for posterity. :rolleyes:

Some of it only ever achieves posteriority...

:D