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Minoux
07-24-2003, 08:29 PM
I received some Canson paper for practicing pastel drawing, which I know nothing about. Half-way through I noticed there were lines running through the paper. I called Dick Blick and they explained to me that it was "laid paper". She gave an explaination but I think I am not straight still.

Do artists really WANT to have these lines running through their drawings? I've researched this on the Net so much, I am now totally confused. One site said it was paper without a watermark.

I don't care to have those lines in my drawings. Any help would be appreciated so I can figure out what to do with 50 huge colored sheets of this paper my daughter sent to me....:p

Thanks

Mo.
07-24-2003, 08:44 PM
Hi Minoux.. Welcome to the forum:)... I have never heard of lines in Cansons paper before, only the textured side being pitted, pocked, mechanical....

Ingres paper has this sort of texture with lines running vertically, annoying too... Not sure what you mean by 'Laid Paper' either, can you enlighten us more as to what exactly they said to you?..... It would seem to me a faulty batch and I would therefore return the paper and ask for a refund or replacement.... maybe others out here has had a similar experience and can share with you.

Cheers,
Mo.

Kathryn Wilson
07-24-2003, 08:51 PM
Could you upload a photo of what you are talking abou. We may be able to determine if this is a manufacturing flaw, or something else.

:(

Minoux
07-24-2003, 08:56 PM
She said it was Canson Ingres paper - lighter weight than Mi-Teintes with a "laid" finish for chalk, pastel, pencil or charcoal. The sheets are 19 x 25, different colours. The lady in customer service said the lines show more on some paper than others and it was a quality in the paper.

She said some artists like the lines in there...but I did not. It is 65% rag, gelatin-sized. I thought about drawing art work on it and then using it for wrapping paper....:D

Minoux
07-24-2003, 09:03 PM
kyle,

I don't have a scanner but I will get one this weekend and then will upload this paper for you to see. If you hold it up to the light you see lines about 3 inches apart running all the way across the paper....I did a Conte on one sheet, of a Terrakotta clay figure, and he looks like he's in jail.....:p

Lots of papers I read about say it is "laid" paper...but I'm still not straight with what that is. I suppose the paper is supposed to be like that.

Thank you

Mo.
07-24-2003, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by Minoux
She said it was Canson Ingres paper - lighter weight than Mi-Teintes with a "laid" finish for chalk, pastel, pencil or charcoal. The sheets are 19 x 25, different colours. The lady in customer service said the lines show more on some paper than others and it was a quality in the paper.

She said some artists like the lines in there...but I did not. It is 65% rag, gelatin-sized. I thought about drawing art work on it and then using it for wrapping paper....:D

Aha I thought so... Ingres... has this awful line running through vertically, is it fairly thin light weight paper too?...( some artists like the lines?)....sales talk I think..... okay for sketches, but not so good for more serious work, I empathise, can you not return it and exchange for a heavier weight pastel paper? Cansons Mi tienes is a good one has a smooth side and a textured side, both sides can be used depending on what effect you are aiming for... if detailed work, then the smooth side is best, if looser work the textured side....

cheers,

Kathryn Wilson
07-24-2003, 09:18 PM
Okay, I will be watching forum threads for your new post. It almost sounds like a hand-made paper with the edges overlapping - but that is a huge guess on my part. :eek:

Minoux
07-25-2003, 12:39 AM
Thank you Mo. and kyle....I think you have it!

It is really thin paper with these awful lines. It's too late to return it as it was a gift from months ago. I'm glad I didn't start another project on it.

I just finished a Conte on black Mi-Teintes and will upload it tomorrow from a picture I took of it, as I have no scanner, but this paper was very nice....noooo lines.:clap:

Thank you for the warm welcome and all the help.

Minoux

jackiesimmonds
07-25-2003, 02:10 AM
Mo is absolutely right - Ingres paper always has "laid lines", there is nothing technically wrong with it, and the shop was right to say that some artists are not bothered by this. I find it very disturbing, and avoid that paper like the plague! It is worse on one side than the other, so you should try both sides.

Fabriano Ingres also has Laid Lines, but they are less obvious.

You can keep spraying your pastel pic with fixative, and eventually, you mostly will "fill the tooth" of the paper ... and the laid lines ... but there will probably be a hint of those lines still in there, and if they really annoy you, then I am afraid there is nothing for it, but to keep that paper for practice purposes and sketching.

For interest and information, here is what Laid Lines are all about - they are part of the paper-making process used by some manufacturers:

"Made using a mold covered with wires to form a disticntive grid pattern of "laid lines"—horizontal wires placed closely together, and "chain lines"—more widely spaced vertical wires. This pattern transfers to the final sheet of paper and becomes an essential identifying feature."

SabZero
07-25-2003, 06:56 AM
I have some Ingres pastel paper too. And it has those lines BUT only on one side. On the back they're not that noticable... Maybe you care to try that ;)

Minoux
07-25-2003, 09:45 AM
Thank you jackiesimmonds and SabZero. Jackie...I am going to donate all this paper to the local elementary school here on base.

I'm attempting to upload a picture of a Conte I did on black Mi-Teintes, which is nice paper. I would like to get a scanner like you all have so I can get help with what I'm trying to learn. I appreciate everyone's knowledge and willingness to help...this is such a great site to learn.

My best,
Minoux

Please delete this sketch if it's not right. I'm not sure quite how to make this the correct size, so I'm very sorry if it's incorrect.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Jul-2003/15603-New_picture.jpg

Deborah Secor
07-25-2003, 01:15 PM
Interesting image Minoux. I'm intrigued by the pose...

As to those laid lines in Ingres, I agree--it's wrapping paper! I kept some around for a while thinking I would use if for something, but I never did.

Good idea to donate it. It will be great for the kids at the local school.