PDA

View Full Version : Roux bear


Wahsuzy
08-06-2012, 12:21 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Aug-2012/1091382-wip_roux.jpg this is a pencil drawing that i am going to tranfer to canvas and try my hand at oils. i still have some work to do like the hair. wish me luck. all feedback is appreciated:wave:

Andrewcody
08-06-2012, 06:22 PM
When you transfer to canvas pull the head down from that top edge a bit.
Good luck :)

Andrew

Wahsuzy
08-06-2012, 06:26 PM
shoot!!! I just transferred it! An I think I'm going to do acrylics. Afraid of oils and don't really want to spend the money on a whole new paint line. Lol. I'll see if I can adjust my transfer

Andrewcody
08-07-2012, 03:39 AM
Yes you can adjust :)

Trumper
08-07-2012, 07:55 AM
:) I know it is personal preference but i find oils easier and more forgiving than acrylics or water colour.
Do you have the reference you are using for the painting we can look at please :)

Debzy
08-07-2012, 08:12 AM
Yes Suzy, a reference photo would be good so that we can help you with feedback before you turn it into a painting? She is a lovely subject, very pretty. She looks oh so sad. =((........... Cheers. =)) Debs.

Wahsuzy
08-07-2012, 08:34 AM
Lol! She's not sad she's exhausted. She was fresh out of our pool. ;). Yes will post reference. Would love the help!!!

Trumper, the thing is I already have acrylics. Kinda tight on money right now. Maybe I'll go get a starter kit. Just don't want to buy another whole line of paints:(

Wahsuzy
08-07-2012, 08:42 AM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Aug-2012/1091382-roux_reference.jpg

Debzy
08-07-2012, 09:12 AM
Awww.... she looks exhausted and maybe a little cold! What a cherub! I can see why you want to paint this. =)) There are a few proportional issues that I can point out if you want it to be a fairly good likeness when you paint her. Her face is not as long as shows on your drawing, her cheek is plumper further down so I would change the way the towel wraps around it to more like the reference. Her nose is not as big or curved as much as you have drawn it and her eyebrow is much straighter also. Her eye is not quite as open as you have in your drawing, and her hidden cheek curves in a little more (viewers right side). The hairline and hair parting is not as severe and her forehead not as high. These are minor and when painting can be altered easily. I agree that her full head would be good rather than cut off to give the shape of her face and head more authenticity. I also feel that in the reference she is slightly tilted down, where on the drawing she is more level. She almost appears to be looking up, rather than distantly gazing. The space is not quite big enough between her (viewers left) eye and nose. Hope this hasn't overwhelmed you, It's just the way I see it. A great start so far, but maybe alter some of those details when you paint it and you will get a closer likeness. she is adorable. Good luck Suzy, can't wait to see you start painting her. Cheers =)) Debs.

Wahsuzy
08-07-2012, 09:24 AM
Wow!! Thanks. I agree with all of your points. I will work
On it today. This is pretty much my first drawing and closest thing to a whole face :). Have done facial parts and One silhouette but this is the first trying to put it all together. Thank you for your quick response. I look forward to trying this with help:):)

Debzy
08-07-2012, 09:29 AM
You are welcome Suzy, and I take my hat off to you for trying a portrait! I have not been game enough for some time. I did a drawing of my daughter recently, and an oil portrait of my son many years ago now, but I can't bring myself to do one in water colours yet! I really want to, but I am reluctant for some reason. Maybe I will get the inspiration from you! Good luck Suzy. I love this little girl. xxx

crafor
08-07-2012, 01:47 PM
One of the hardest things for me is getting the tilt of the head correct. Even a few degrees off and it seems to me it throws the rest off, relative to the reference photo, but you won't hang the two together, will you?

She is a beautiful subject, and your painting will be a wonderful memento for her.

Ella

Wahsuzy
08-07-2012, 01:56 PM
Ella, no way!! I'm pretty frustrated with it right now. I've started the painting and (siggghhhh) I just don't know. Going to walk away for a little bit.... I can't seem to get where she is looking right either. Ok thats it, I'm taking a break....

crafor
08-07-2012, 04:15 PM
You have the photo. Get it enlarged, and use a graph to copy it to, trace it to a canvas, and go from there. Start with the thought that this is a learning piece, a study. Do several drawings, some studies. Do the best you can, and do a few more. Later, do another one of the same photo.
Or rather start with a different picture so you don't burn out. When you do this one, you will have had more practice and will have more confidence.
Since you, like all of us, have limited funds to spend on paint, rather than buying a starter kit, choose separate tubes carefully. Do some research in the OILS forum and in the PORTRAIT forum, maybe ask for suggestions of colors to use for that photo.
If this is your first portrait, it's worth it to do the research and do other portraits first, for the reasons given above.
Ella

Wahsuzy
08-07-2012, 05:29 PM
ella, i am in no way going to give up. just needed to walk away for a bit. have been working on it again and i think it may actually take shape:) thanks for the reminder that this is for practice. heres what i have so farhttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Aug-2012/1091382-wip_roux_paint_1.jpg it just looks so strange without brows and lashes. i dont want to rush to add those to make it look "right" lol!!!! i am having a blast painting it. this is the daughter of one of my best friends. i will check out the other forums as well, still earning my way around:wink2:

Andrewcody
08-08-2012, 12:14 AM
Ella was giving you some excellent advice regarding drawing grids.
I think you should stop and follow that advice.
You should also be painting in the main details and making sure these are accurate to the reference, before you start adding all the colour - get the tonal shifts right first and the drafting accurate.
Observe your reference, then observe what you have done - take some measurements if you are not going to grid.
Regards
Andrew

crafor
08-08-2012, 10:51 AM
I don't know how to use photoshop programs, but what I have learned to do here to help me, is to make 2 windows. (I'm typing in a third window).
The first window is your photo. The second window is your drawing. I have them both squeezed so that all I see of your drawing is the vertical area just to the left of her right eye (viewer left). Not talking of size here, but as I do this I can easily see that the cheek curve under her left eye is off. the line of the nose and forehead is off. You're in beginning stages, be aware of these. They are throwing the likeness off.
I hope this helps.
Ella
Another thing I just learned to do because I don't seem to have a ruler or graph program for my windows screen is to use another window squeezed to ruler width and pulled out to the length I need to compare areas either vertically or horizontally.

crafor
08-08-2012, 11:57 AM
Correction: I said: " just to the left of her right eye (viewer left)."
Should have been "just to the tight of her right eye (viewer right."
I can see both her eyes.
Ella

Wahsuzy
08-08-2012, 12:49 PM
Thank you!!!! I have taken your advise and been researching how to get proportions right. I'm going to try it again from scratch. Im aware that the whole thing is off and not going to to paint anymore until I get it right:) thank you everyone for the help!!!

crafor
08-08-2012, 01:03 PM
For what it's worth, I posted a recent painting that I started. Someone told me to check the proportions. I did, using the guides I wrote of in post 17. I was way off, and have been working on the painting ever since. I'm working on it today, so am not yet ready to post it, but there were many changes. I'll post it here in this forum, I think, when I have the next steps done--maybe today, maybe not for a few days. It may, or may not help you.
Ella
who is still working on the layout of her wip.

Debzy
08-09-2012, 02:35 AM
Hi again Suzy. I think it is a good idea to start again. A graph is the best idea for those starting portraits I believe. I used one for my cat painting "Pretty Pepper", and am so glad I did. I put a lot of work into it but was very happy with the outcome. Enlarge the photo on your computer and print it out about A4 size. Then draw a graph over it, I used about a 1" square graph all over it. Then I drew a graph of the same number of squares on my paper and was able to outline the features in exactly the right places. As long as your squares are all square, and all the same size, it will work. So if you have 1" squares on your printout, you can do 2" or bigger on your paper/canvas,and as long as there are the same number of squares and all the same size, you will get the same proportions only it will all be bigger. Try it! You will be rewarded. Good luck and I think it is great that you are determined to get it right. You go Girl!!!!:clap: :clap: :clap: =)) Debs.

Andrewcody
08-09-2012, 02:46 AM
Suzy - you dont need a colour enlargement to grid, a straightforward enlarged photocopy would do. Or enlarge it on your PC or Laptop and grid it and use that as your reference near your painting?
You want to get the drafting accurate as possible before you paint.
There are a lot of really good examples here of how some of the artists achieve this.
Regards
Andrew

crafor
08-09-2012, 09:48 AM
I'm not at all computer savvy. For a grid for photographs, I used a plastic "page protector". First I inserted a blank white sheet of paper into it and found the center. Then I carefully marked outwards from the center 1" spaces. Next, I drew the lines with a permanent marker. I inserted the photo into the sleeve and, without having marked the photo, I had a 1" grid for it, and could frid my tracing paper or canvas to transfer it to. Then, I could use that same sleeve for other photos, too.:clap:
Ella

Wahsuzy
08-09-2012, 02:16 PM
What a great idea!!! Well I gridded it with the computer and I think it looks better. I will post a picture when I get home from work this evening and then you all can help me start painting. Lol!!! Andrew, you said paint all the details and shadows first? Do you mean an underpainting? Cause I'm clueless but I really want to try:)

Wahsuzy
08-09-2012, 05:24 PM
ok, here is my redo...

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Aug-2012/1091382-wip_roux_redo.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Aug-2012/1091382-roux_reference.jpg

Andrewcody
08-09-2012, 06:30 PM
The size of the photo reference, and the grid, must be scaled to match the size of your canvas and the grid on the canvas.
Andrew

Wahsuzy
08-09-2012, 06:41 PM
I wanted to do a drawing first on paper before I tackled the canvas. Can't I just make my squares bigger on the canvas and do it that way?

crafor
08-09-2012, 08:13 PM
Yes. If the squares of your photo are each 1 inch, on an 8x10" photo, you can use large drawing paper. (Tape sheets together if needed) Make your grid marks perhaps 2". for a 16x20 painting. If you use a lightweight paper for your drawing, you can turn that drawing over and maybe using a ligiht box, (or tape it to a window) draw, with vine charcoal, the reversd image. Lay THAT very carefully onto your prepared canvas, and using a pen, go over the lines on the FRONT of the drawing, which will transfer the charcoal drawing to the canvas.
If you can avoid drawing the grid on the canvas, you will eliminate problems that others have, of the grid bleeding through.
I haven't compared them, but this drawing looks much better than the first one.
How many coats of acrylic gesso have you applied to your canvas? You're using acrylic paint, aren't you?
Ella

Wahsuzy
08-09-2012, 09:00 PM
Ella, I am reusing an old canvas. Probably has 4 or 5 coats on it and about to have more. Lol. Or can I just paint over the old one without gesso? (using the canvas that I started this painting with) Yes using acrylic. I have been considering using a projector to transfering the image to canvas but I really want to just do it myself. thank you I feel I like this one is better too:)

Debzy
08-09-2012, 09:18 PM
The drawing is much much better Suzy!!! Yes, an amazing improvement! Well done. You will feel much better now to start painting it, a much closer likeness and all features are in far better proportion now. Cant wait to see the painting develop. If your grid is drawn lightly on the canvas, I don't think you will have problems with it showing through, especially if you are using acrylics. I used a grid and acrylic paint on my cats face, the grid is not visible in the finished work. You can check it out if you like, it is called "Pretty Pepper", earlier this year. I think you can see the grid in the earlier stages. Anyway Suzy, I am loving this. Good luck and we will all be here to assist if you need . Cheers. =)) Debs.

Andrewcody
08-10-2012, 08:30 PM
YAY well done - I am a fairly recent convert to the grid - it does work and it is an old technique.
Your drawing looks so good Suzy
Regards
Andrew

crafor
08-10-2012, 09:58 PM
Ella, I am reusing an old canvas. Probably has 4 or 5 coats on it and about to have more. Lol. Or can I just paint over the old one without gesso? (using the canvas that I started this painting with) Yes using acrylic. I have been considering using a projector to transfering the image to canvas but I really want to just do it myself. thank you I feel I like this one is better too:)

Do you know what type of paint is on that old canvas? If it's oil, use only oil on top of it. acrylic will not adhere to oil. If it;s a few years old, it's probably not a good idea, except maybe for practice work.
I recently completed a portrait on a canvas that had large sky area painted as well as the base paint for the face. The one I'm working on now also had a recent painting on it. See "Repairing Rick" --I'm trying to rescue that one.
Ella

Wahsuzy
08-11-2012, 06:44 AM
It's not old and only had acrylic on it. It's actually the same
Canvas that I started of this drawing. I'm just going to do it. Thank you everyone for helping and your nice comments. Hopefully I can start painting it this weekend. I may need some help as to how to start it the right way. Like should I do an underpainting? Do I do it in monochrome and then build up glazes
On top of that?????? Anytime I have tried glazing it looks rather messy with lots of stroke marks....

Debzy
08-11-2012, 07:33 AM
I just started with the darkest areas when I work with acrylics, and gradually build up the mid tones, then lights, then highlights. Others may do it differently, but that is how I do it. =)) Cheers. Debs

crafor
08-11-2012, 11:25 AM
Sorry--I can't help you at all with acrylics, but what you describe--the underpainting, the momochrome, then glazes, is what I have been doing up to RICK, and I wanted to try alla prima. That didn't work. I'm continuing with that canvas, but I scraped back heavier layers. If I redo that one, it will be via the Flemish Method--layering.
Debzy is excellent with watercolor, which is also not the same as acrylics, but I think is more like it than oil. You seem to have a good touch with acrylics, follow her guidance on that, and her suggestion in post 34.

Maybe someone in the acrylics or portraiture forums can help, too.

I'm sure you'll do really well.
Ella

Andrewcody
08-13-2012, 09:22 PM
Make sure you Gesso over the old painting.
Make a few drawings - scale your paper to the canvas so when you have a drawing you are most happy with use this to grid and transfer to the canvas.
Just keep your scaling constant between the drawing and the canvas, make the grid and transfer pencil (if you use pencil) as faint as possible while still being able to see it, or use thinned paint, this might be problematic with Acrylics.
Regards
Andrew

Wahsuzy
08-14-2012, 03:37 PM
Thanks guys. I'm putting this one on hold for the time being. I REALLY want to try oils. So will wait until I can....

Wahsuzy
09-08-2012, 04:38 PM
ok so ive started painting my underpainting in monochromatic with burnt umber, white, and i made my own black(cause i dont have it) burnt umber and french ultramarine. need to know if i am on the right track if not what do i need to do and do i do the whole painting like this, am i doing too much, not enough???? thank you in advance:)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Sep-2012/1091382-new3357.jpg

Wahsuzy
09-10-2012, 04:31 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Sep-2012/1091382-new22721.jpg

crafor
09-10-2012, 06:33 PM
This is a huge improvement over the first. Be sure this layer is completely dry before adding another layer or the glazes.
Ella

Wahsuzy
09-10-2012, 06:39 PM
Thank you Ella. :) do you think the eyebrow is off?

crafor
09-10-2012, 09:03 PM
Suzy, for a really crude measurement, as I set the painting next to the photo Yes, the eyebrow is slightly off. The photos I'm looking at are not the same size, and maybe my eyes are in crooked today so take what I say with a little salt: (and be aware that I don't know that I could make tiny changes, and maybe they're not needed, ) but it appears to me that the corner of the mouth is a little off, but it could be due to that dark area that that gives that impression. Lighten that first, maybe, and maybe the mouth is correct. It also seems to me that the philtrum-the area between her nose and upper lip is a tiny bit short. If you remove or lower that towel fold that is a lighter color and extend that philtrum just that little bit I think it will be more accurate.
Her right eye (on viewer left) appears correct, however, her left eye (our right) is a bit low, due in part to the nose-forehead curve being just a bit low. The bottom of her left eye should be raised a bit, which means the nose curve needs raised to get her left eye in more correctly.
I could be wrong due to may factors, including that the two images are not the same size and I don't know how to get them there. I think it's pretty close unless you're going for hyper-realism.
All in all, you've done an amazing job with this. These things are more easily adjusted in this stage than they would be in color. I hope this helps.
Ella

Debzy
09-10-2012, 09:22 PM
Hi Suzy, wow this is looking great! You are so brave =)) I agree with everything Ella said, these are a few minor details to change that would make a big difference. I wont say any more than Ella, I think she has covered it well. I will study it further and if I see anything else I will let you know. Keep going Suzy, wonderful challenge for you! =)) Cheers Debs.

Debzy
09-10-2012, 09:43 PM
I think the tip of her nose is a bit too pinched as well Suzy. =)) It could extend just a fraction more slightly towards the viewers right side of her face. =)) Debs.

Wahsuzy
09-11-2012, 07:27 AM
Wow!! Thanks Ella and debs:) your help is invaluable to me. Thank you so much. I'm going to work on these today as I would like to get this very realistic.:eek: hee hee.