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Kathryn Wilson
07-17-2003, 05:04 PM
Promised the OP folks to upload my WIP, experimenting with the tools that have been mentioned in the OP Sticky.

This is on Sennelier pastel board - last sand tooth and does not affect the way I am working one way or the other.

I laid in the colors I wanted to use, then the highlights and darks. For comparison, the grape bunch on the left has been blended with W&N Medium and a color shaper, as are the bunches in the back and bottom. The lightened areas are also blended. It's been a fun learning experiment.

Also attached is a color chart with Caran d'ache at the top and Galley pastels at the bottom. Then both done with mediuma and turps. The swatches done with medium were not dry after 10 minutes, but the turps were.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Jul-2003/14941-grapes3.JPG

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Jul-2003/14941-color-chart2.JPG

I found the turpenoid dulled the colors and the medium kept the depth of color.


:D

flower
07-17-2003, 05:09 PM
Hi Kyle,

Nice work, and really interesting to see the colour chart, im not that experienced but maybe they could also have a talk dark shading on some of them, but really nice to see them hanging there, the wine growers here will be pleased to have such a crop

Dyin
07-17-2003, 07:02 PM
oooooh...this is luscious!!!!!! Doesn't look like you're having any troubles at all....what it looks like is FUN!!! I found the turp dulled the color too (and that's what is best about the OPs)...but not the W&N blender....How are you applying it? Are you putting the blender on the support and then painting it? Or are you making a mix? Either works...is the sand tooth getting clogged or rubbing away? See...already you can tell us things we don't know!!! Keep posting your WIP...please...it's really coming along...don't you think so too?:clap: :clap: :clap:

Mo.
07-17-2003, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by kyle
Promised the OP folks to upload my WIP, experimenting with the tools that have been mentioned in the OP Sticky.

This is on Sennelier pastel board - last sand tooth and does not affect the way I am working one way or the other.

I laid in the colors I wanted to use, then the highlights and darks. For comparison, the grape bunch on the left has been blended with W&N Medium and a color shaper, as are the bunches in the back and bottom. The lightened areas are also blended. It's been a fun learning experiment.

Also attached is a color chart with Caran d'ache at the top and Galley pastels at the bottom. Then both done with mediuma and turps. The swatches done with medium were not dry after 10 minutes, but the turps were.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Jul-2003/14941-grapes3.JPG

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Jul-2003/14941-color-chart2.JPG

I found the turpenoid dulled the colors and the medium kept the depth of color.


:D

Kat.....it's looking great.....when I used Art Spectrum and Sandfix papers.. I found them the best of supports so far for Op's, found I could layer and layer the pastels, use liquin/turps blend and still keep applying more pastel, then when it came to the final touches... the tooth was still there to add texture and effects... I love that type of support, my other favourite is water-colour paper... a different baby... but so nice to use, especially if you lay a wash of watercolours first off.... you obviously like the colour shapers, can't say I like them that much, perhaps it's me. but I find it lifts the pastel rather than blend it... the best blenders I've used are my own hand made ones, hogs hair brushes,.... a definite, and paper towel..... love the hogs hair brushes, but they wear out very quickly, so quite expensive to use..... turps only dulls the colour because it is diluting it... liquin or what you use W&N blender, probably similar... doesn't dilute the colour, just spreads it...I like both, different effects with both too.. keep going, this is turning out to be a good one. :clap:

Mo.

editing here to add ... I forgot to say about your colour swatches...be careful mixing student grade pastels with Artist quality ones, they are made differently and if you do a serious painting that you may wish to sell, the two may inter-react in some way, as the student quality ones...(Gallery) have more wax content than oil content..... the artist quality such as Sennelier and Holbein, Caran D'ache, have more oil content and less wax.

Looking forward to seeing this one progress.

Dyin
07-17-2003, 07:35 PM
Hey, Kyle and Mo...I've been wondering what would happen if we mixed a little oil with the OPs...would that also spread it? I can't use it on my WIP so if one of you wants to try???? Where's the next stage, Kat????? btw...never used Art Spectrum or Sandfix...think I need to!

Mo.
07-17-2003, 07:43 PM
Sue... no doubt it would, not tried it... but would think drying time would be difficult..yes?... Don't really like the idea somehow.... but I'll give it a try... don't know when though.:D... got your PM... will reply tomorrow okay?

Apologies Kat... for messing up your thread. ;)

Kathryn Wilson
07-17-2003, 07:53 PM
Flower: Thanks for the comments and I hope you follow this WIP thread - everyone sees things differently and any observations made will be duly noted. Will be adding many more darks all over and will leave the very lightest of lights until last.


Dyin: I actually started this out my usual way of doing pastels, trying to get the colors in the right places, with the right values - darks and lights. I then started using a brush to dull down some of the leaves with Turpenoid (see bottom leaves). The grapes at that point had 3 layers of color on - lightest purple, darkest purple, with the grape/blue color added - with the flourish of whites as highlights at the top (keeping in mind what you said about saving the lightest lights by using white to begin with). I then just stuck the color shaper into the medium and blended the 3 layers together. After that dried, I applied a mauve to several grapes on the bunch to the left towards the bottom right to see if I could add more color - it worked!

The medium I speak of is Windsor & Newton "Artists' Painting Medium" which I think is different from your blender medium. The bottle says it is Linseed Stand Oil/Petroleum Distillate. Sure does spread the color nicely.

Mo: I did the color swatches before I did the painting to see what results I would get with the cheaper pastels compared to Caran d'ache and am sharing the info with anyone who is interested in OP's to let them know what they are like.

I have four pieces of this Sennelier board cut and I am planning on doing more variations on a theme - John Elliott in his book gave some interesting examples of combining mediums with OP's. Should be interesting - I may be out of pocket while do this - but will be posting WIP's as I move along.

I find this board to have a very smooth tooth - Art Spectrum is rougher and wasn't sure how it would tear up my OP's. Thanks for that bit of info Mo.

Dyin
07-17-2003, 08:04 PM
ahh, so you in a way, you ARE using oil...very interesting. So you are applying the medium to the OPs already laid...I use my cuticle shaper a lot...if you rub too hard it picks up the op tho. You look like you've been doing this for ages...:D

Kathryn Wilson
07-17-2003, 08:11 PM
Dyin: In my test swatches I timed the drying time (and this was on a very smooth illustration board). The medium was still sticky after 10 minutes, but the Turpenoid was totally dry.

I finger tested my painting after 1/2 hour and it was dry and not tacky, so I added that little bit of mauve to see how that reacted. It was fine. I am checking the back of my board and I see no oil seeping through yet. I will keep track of that.

This is fun!

flower
07-17-2003, 08:54 PM
Hi Kyle,

Will follow this thread through it is so interesting and i have so much to learn, thankyou for starting it off

Dyin
07-17-2003, 09:17 PM
I've never had oil seep thru with the W&N blending medium...or the OPs on any surface so far...but that stayed pretty wet for awhile...of course it was an acrylic primed canvas too...so that surely had something to do with it....best thing is you're having fun!

Kathryn Wilson
07-17-2003, 09:26 PM
I think any paper that has been primed as this is and ArtSpectrum, I doubt that the oil would seep through, but thought it would be a good idea to keep track of it.

I think acrylic gesso might be a problem for drying time - it is a plastic medium and very non-porous.

Smudger
07-18-2003, 04:22 AM
Great Grapes... i'm hoping the ones in my greenhouse will look like that soon:D

Kathryn Wilson
07-18-2003, 06:02 AM
Smudger: Greenhouse grapes? How are they growing - up in the top of the greenhouse or do have them twined around something - that could be an interesting photo. I used to work a very, very small concord grape vineyard and I love grapes hanging like in this photo - it reminds me of harvest time in the fall when we hand-picked them all - it's the most relaxing, enjoyable outdoor work I ever did. :D :D

Kathryn Wilson
07-20-2003, 02:16 PM
Hi all - here's the next installment on the Oil Pastel WIP - Grapes:

This morning I was not happy about the background and tried various things to pull it together, but finally took a medium brown oil pastel and lightly applied it to the background, but leaving out the 2 largest bunches of grapes. That seemed to pull it together, but I was still not happy with it. I wanted the smaller bunches of grapes and leaves to be subordinate to the larger bunches, so decided to fade the background.

I took a fan brush and dipped it into turpenoid and with horizontal strokes I applied the turpenoid to everything but the 2 large bunches. I am happier with this, but certainly not done. Just wanted to get this phase into the thread before I moved on to whatever comes next - LOL, tho' not sure what will come next.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Jul-2003/14941-grapes4a.JPG

Dyin
07-20-2003, 02:26 PM
dragging the turp gave it a neat foggy background look...like the effect...it will look nice behind the bigger focal bunches...isn't it kind of exciting to play with the effects like that? And exciting not being quite sure what comes next...you're taking to these OPs like a fish in water!!!! I'm liking so far...been hoping you'd post an update!!! But I'm greedy..want more...:D

Kathryn Wilson
07-20-2003, 02:33 PM
I don't know Dyin . . . after seeing Mo's new OP with the Iris and Crumblebrains with the sparrow, I'm not sure I am cut out for OP's. Just can't seem to get that detail - maybe rather than detail I should go for "painterly" - you know, impressionistic - LOL.

Dyin
07-20-2003, 02:40 PM
Kat...there's more than one way to skin a cat!!! You don't have to have tons of detail for it to be good....you're just getting used to the OPs too...give them and YOU a chance for grrrr's sake!!! There's lots of ways to get detail...a rubber tip tool works good...you put a dab on the tool and 'push' it...also Prismacolor pencils can be used for detail..brushes, rolled up paper towel, cotton swabs...experiment!!!! AND...I like how yours is coming out...but we are so funny...I wish I could paint looser...you wish you could paint more detailed...you probably have the curly hair I'd like...and me the straight you wish for LOL!!!! Let's all celebrate our own styles...am really counting on you to approach it differently so I LEARN SOMETHING NEW!!!!! :D

Kathryn Wilson
07-20-2003, 03:35 PM
Okay, going to call this one done - after all it was just an experiment and am anxious to get on with some other techniques. Going to try one with watercolor for the background.

I added reddish-brown highlights to the grapes in front - some highlights to the grapes in the background.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Jul-2003/14941-grapes5a.JPG

Dyin
07-20-2003, 04:50 PM
SO..did you like working with the turps??? Think it came out neat...will be looking for a new one soon then!

Kathryn Wilson
07-20-2003, 05:07 PM
It was real weird working with the turps - made it like working with watercolor. I think turps has a place in OP's, but more for dulling down areas (like this background) than anything else. Perhaps for laying in larger areas of color.

I am a little worried about the W&N medium - it seemed to separate the oil pastels - hard to describe - I may have extended it too much. Listen, I have never worked in oils, so this is a double whammy for me.

I keep thinking back to something quoted in Elliott's book - oil pastelists are artistic pioneers - Dominique Sennelier. We are all still learning! :D

Dyin
07-20-2003, 05:23 PM
I thought the turps dulled the color, which is what I like best about the OPs. But that's why I liked the W&N glazing medium...it didn't dull...it seemed to work best if I lay some down and then stuck the sticks right in...then spread it a little with my rubber tip tool. Guilliame said the linseed oil worked nice...do want to try that....Think when I get done with my WIP I'll just try something for fun before I start my next piece....it's fun being an artistic pioneer!!!!

Kathryn Wilson
07-20-2003, 07:11 PM
OP Pastel Paper Alert!

Sennelier pastel paper does not take to watercolor at all - or water. The surface comes right off with a hard scrub with a fan brush.

Hard lesson learned, but better now than on a good piece. :crying:

Dyin
07-20-2003, 07:30 PM
Kyle...post that in the OP sticky!!!!! Was worried about that...probably watercolor paper would work...neat texture too...sorry...but that's how we learn....today i learned to never wear white pants while working.....:mad: :eek: :(

Kathryn Wilson
07-20-2003, 08:29 PM
What's funny about it is that it took the Turpenoid okay on my first pience - but I was real light-handed with it. Going to post the botched paper anyway, went on to work on it in 3 different pastel mediums just to see - the paper was ruined anyway. Used Neopastel II for the layin of color, combination of soft pastel and OP's on the next layer. Finishing with OP's. I wanted to see if the 3 got along together. Will post tomorrow after I see it in daylight.

;)