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ArtMarkie
07-20-2012, 12:27 PM
Hello group,

I have seen the black canvases in some art supply shops. How could you use them with oil paint? I thought one needed to cover all the canvas with oil paint. So would not the black canvas be irrelevant? :confused:

Toril
07-20-2012, 02:08 PM
A background color or underpainting can shine and/or show through and create particular effects - many painters cover a white canvas with an undercolor as the first step.

Freesail
07-20-2012, 02:57 PM
How could you use them with oil paint?

Watch some pbs reruns .... BOB ROSS

Aires
07-20-2012, 05:39 PM
If you ae doing a scene wih a lot of dark shadowed areas, a dark canvas can actually save you quite a bit of paint, letting some of the dark show through. Seems odd but colors really pop against black. It's mostly choosing a compostiion that is enhanced by a dark canvas. You can turn any canvas into a black one with a coat of black gesso, which I sometimes do for the lower portions of a landscape compositin if the dark will save me time and paint. Example: black gesso canvas is perfect for a dark cliff face or a dark grotto area - saves a lot of paint once you learn how to make it work for you. I keep a jar of black gesso on hand just for those occasions when it wil be an asset and save me a lot of work.

!becca
07-20-2012, 06:35 PM
Aires is right about the colors popping, likewise it might be more difficult to make light areas really bright..worth experimenting with I suppose.

WFMartin
07-20-2012, 08:48 PM
The typical, and quite garish example of the traditional "painting on a black background" would be the proverbial, "Elvis On Black Velvet" painting.

Not that there even is such a painting, but the concept of it rather sets the example for the resulting style of painting that is generally created by such an effort.

It surely does make the colors "pop". Usually, to such an extent that your eyes bleed. :lol: :lol: :lol:

karenlee
07-20-2012, 11:25 PM
WF Martin wrote, "Not that there even is such a painting"

--there are hundreds of 'em-- Elvis on Black Velvet
and here are some of them:

http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=A0oG7pf7EQpQ1joACowPxQt.?p=elvis+on+black+velvet+painting&fr=att-portal&fr2=piv-web

It appears one could earn a living at it.

!becca
07-20-2012, 11:30 PM
WF Martin wrote, "Not that there even is such a painting"

--there are hundreds of 'em-- Elvis on Black Velvet
and here are some of them:

http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=A0oG7pf7EQpQ1joACowPxQt.?p=elvis+on+black+velvet+painting&fr=att-portal&fr2=piv-web

It appears one could earn a living at it.
:thumbsup:

Ron Francis
07-21-2012, 01:26 AM
Some artists like working from dark to light, but a black canvas is pretty extreme.
Oil paint continues to get transparent over time, so anything painted on black will get darker and darker. I would rather paint on white for that reason, but a mid tone would be better than black.

Gigalot
07-21-2012, 06:59 AM
Ancient Greek vases with a black glaze looks very beautiful. But I feel myself so sorry for the poor mutilated Elvis. :crying:

sidbledsoe
07-21-2012, 07:27 AM
Hello group,

I have seen the black canvases in some art supply shops. How could you use them with oil paint? I thought one needed to cover all the canvas with oil paint. So would not the black canvas be irrelevant? :confused:
Jeff Mahorney (http://jmahorney.blogspot.com/)is an artist that always paints on black panels and even painted his palette black. If you click on his images and look close you can see the black ground around the edges of things.
You do not have to cover all of the canvas with paint at all. They make and sell plenty of black supports for all types of mediums, pastels, charcoal, etc. and I have seen great stuff done with it since I was a little child and I am an old grandpa now.
Karin Jurick (http://karinjurick.blogspot.com/) also paints on black (http://www.karinjurick.com/ZemArt/Welcome.html) and explains why she prefers it here (http://karinjurick.blogspot.com/2007/04/painting-on-black.html), she does it very well too.

Apparently fellow artists will condemn just about anything and any other way artists prefer to use materials and how they prefer to paint.

!becca
07-21-2012, 08:09 AM
Sid, you are a wealth of knowledge about any number of topics...aren't you? and I am glad you brought up the idea that covering the whole canvas isn't necessary at all.

sidbledsoe
07-21-2012, 08:48 AM
I don't know my arse from a hole in the ground and I couldn't find it with a handful of fishhooks either but I have seen very nice work done on black canvas.

!becca
07-21-2012, 10:15 AM
Sid, :D I don't know that I have saw work on black...at least in real life...now I will watch for it...heck..I may try it! But maybe not Elvis.

karenlee
07-21-2012, 12:33 PM
I wonder how oil paint would become more transparent over time; this implies every single pigment eventually loses its opacity. If this is true, why would the same pigments not lose their opacity in gouache? fresco? and encaustic? Anyone explain?

karenlee
07-21-2012, 12:42 PM
I think black canvas is ideal for certain subjects. I remember a hundred years ago in art school I was captivated by the weed goatsbeard, a globe of white, feathery plumes. How do I do this with a pencil, I asked.
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http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Jul-2012/45183-goatsbeard.jpg
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My art teacher suggested I get brown or black pastel paper and draw with white conte crayon. What a revelation- I never would have thought of that in a million years. It worked beautifully. There really would be no other way to do it!

!becca
07-21-2012, 12:48 PM
Karen, good question about that transparency theory..I have looked at some pretty old frescoes and they were a bit faded, but I can't say they appeared transparent...
and that weed head is beautiful..kinda like a snowflake...I do remember bernie posting a few years back about painting on black gesso and sort of remember something about the lights not being as brilliant..

sidbledsoe
07-21-2012, 01:42 PM
I wonder how oil paint would become more transparent over time; this implies every single pigment eventually loses its opacity. If this is true, why would the same pigments not lose their opacity in gouache? fresco? and encaustic? Anyone explain?
I don't know K but:
"All things must pass" George Harrison
"All is vanity" Ecclesiastes
"Nothing lasts forever" IDK
"Paint it Black" Rolling Stones

!becca
07-21-2012, 01:49 PM
Sid, great references! a little dark..but just what I was looking for...

sidbledsoe
07-21-2012, 01:55 PM
here is one Janet C did on black:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8185090&postcount=7

!becca
07-21-2012, 02:00 PM
Sid, That is beautiful..I would love to know how the lights held up in it.

Ron Francis
07-21-2012, 07:05 PM
I wonder how oil paint would become more transparent over time; this implies every single pigment eventually loses its opacity. If this is true, why would the same pigments not lose their opacity in gouache? fresco? and encaustic? Anyone explain?I can't say that I know terribly much about the mechanics of the process, but some colours are not as colour fast as others. It seems though that the oil medium is mostly responsible. I believe that saponification is linked to transparency as well.
This is from Mayer:
... The liquids used in such laboratory experiments are not suitable for paint medium purposes, but the effect produced clearly demonstrates that hiding power or opacity in a paint film can be lost through a change in the conditions which surround the pigment that has been used. In an actual oil painting, this does not occur at once; but in galleries one may frequently find a picture in which, by reason of changes wrought by time, oxidation, etc., the refractive index of the oil film has changed, and a thin coat of paint which originally sufficed to form an opaque film has become sufficiently transparent to allow underpainting or drawing to show through. The effect is called pentimento. Though all opaque pigments have this property, the whites possess it to a greater degree than do the others; pentimento in old pictures usually appears where white or colours reduced with much white have been used. The fact that all dried films of oil paint tend to become more transparent with age is well established.
Apparently fellow artists will condemn just about anything and any other way artists prefer to use materials and how they prefer to paint. Sid, I hope your comment wasn't referring to me.

sidbledsoe
07-21-2012, 08:18 PM
(No it wasn't directed at anyone)
Here is another artist who likes to paint on black canvases:
GEn2yUTnS0M

!becca
07-21-2012, 08:26 PM
Guess that kind of answers my concerns bout the light on dark canvii! His paintings are beautiful and mindful..and does he ever get into the zone! Thanks again, Sid! You are a gem!

sidbledsoe
07-21-2012, 08:28 PM
zirconium

!becca
07-21-2012, 08:33 PM
zirconium


zirconium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zirconium) I did read this very quickly...or...the gem? aha!http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Jul-2012/100116-300-cubic-zirconia.jpg pretty, but you are the real deal..:D:o

Kory
07-21-2012, 09:34 PM
There is something about a black canvas that makes me be able to visualize the painting coming together a bit more, so I almost want to do it more often. I have a couple of canvases sitting there primed with black gesso...

I'm sure most of you have heard of Akiane (http://www.akiane.com)

Apparently she always starts with a black canvas, and her paintings have turned out amazing...

!becca
07-21-2012, 09:44 PM
Kory, I have heard of her...

It seems there are many works done on black canvii....I will try it one day too, but first I need to paint what I have prepared on my plain ole white canvii..

ArtMarkie
07-28-2012, 01:26 PM
Thank you all for your comments. Now I would like to know, if you do not cover the entire canvas with oil paint, can you varnish it?

!becca
07-28-2012, 02:08 PM
art, I don't see why you couldn't.

Ron Francis
07-28-2012, 09:08 PM
Thank you all for your comments. Now I would like to know, if you do not cover the entire canvas with oil paint, can you varnish it?
I don't see why you couldn't either, although because acrylic ground has tooth and is more permeable, the varnish may be more difficult to remove than if it is over oil,