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sgtaylor
06-19-2003, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by impressionist2
How does your faith influence your choice of which subject matter to paint, sculpt, etc.?

Unfortunately, I would classify most of my painting as student work... and it is for the most part still about how to do it... not about what I want it to be. I've been feeling that I am now ready to move past that... but personal circumstances have put my visual art career on hold. I am mostly working on my music now, but as I do not write songs, the actual inspiration is easy to overlook... and it doesn't have an obvious subject matter.

What subject matter are you drawn to the most, and how does that relate to what you believe?

The (not obvious) subject matter of my music - and the subject matter I wish to approach but have not yet approached in my painting - is hard to describe.

The material world certainly holds its attractions for me, and I do not believe that we are meant to reject this world entirely for the sake of another. But as good as some material things are - and much of material world is indeed good - it is for me the candy... the icing on the cake... the butter on the bread. If I take it for substance.... as the thing itself... it seems a poor sort of thing. It's fun... I'm glad I got to play. But there is something - above? - behind? - underneath? - the material world. I have touched it, but have been unable to hold it. I've seen it, but I am still looking for it. If I am very, very quiet, I can hear it. My music is a very imperfect translation of what I have heard. Sometimes when I am carving stone, I sense it... and the stone tells me what to do.

The subject of my music - and I hope one day my painting and sculpture - is The Other. If I knew exactly what The Other was, I suppose I could just write it down here and then both of us would know. But I do not know and cannot just write it down. To borrow Biblical language, I see it (when I can see it) through a glass, darkly. Music - and I hope soon sculpture and painting - are some of the ways through which I hope to see it more clearly.

Can you please post an example of what you mean by a work of yours that you consider has been "influenced by your Faith".

I'm sorry, but I cannot at this time. I'm trying to figure out how to put music up on a website somewhere, but that probably won't happen for another month or so. The sad truth is that my painting and sculpture is on hold until I've handled some personal, strictly material issues. I don't think I'll even touch a paintbrush for at least another month.... and as I said, my existing work is all student stuff.... not my work at all really.

Do you feel that you are creating in the best way you can, so that God would be pleased, and if not, what steps do you think you will need to take to achieve that goal, if that is your goal.

I know that I am not creating to the best of my ability, and I both excuse and abuse myself over that. But it is not really a matter of pleasing God. I do not actually use the word God. If I may use my own words, I do not work to please The Other, and somehow that concept doesn't really make sense to me. I'm not sure that I can either please or offend The Other. I work to know The Other... - and if possible - to be part of The Other.

arourapope
06-19-2003, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by sgtaylor

I work to know The Other... - and if possible - to be part of The Other.

Yep.

Keith Russell
06-20-2003, 11:01 AM
and yet, sg, you describe this 'other' world in materialistic ways.

You 'hear' it, if you are still. You 'feel' it, when you are carving stone--'stone' being a physical, material entity.

If this 'other world' is connected to our own, and if you (a physical being) can (using the physical senses you possess) 'sense' this 'other world', from within the 'material' realm you inhabit, how do you know for certain that what you are sensing is not, also, physical/material?

K

arourapope
06-20-2003, 11:20 AM
I can't answer for sg, but for me, it's that too. It's all of it.

sgtaylor
06-20-2003, 11:48 AM
Yes. It's that too.

Keith Russell
06-20-2003, 06:04 PM
That, too?

How about, perhaps, only that, and nothing more?

And, just perhaps, 'that' is sufficient!?

Anyway, ironically, many of my works which seem to me to most reflect my lack of faith, are the images that also seem to appeal the most to those who have a great deal of faith.

The art is objective, but the interpretations of the art clearly have subjective components...(not that this is a bad thing)...

K

sgtaylor
06-20-2003, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by Keith Russell
How about, perhaps, only that, and nothing more?

And, just perhaps, 'that' is sufficient!?

Not wanting to risk a debate, but... ;)

I hope that we can agree that surface reality is not all that it seems.

I remember the first time I looked at pond water under a microscope.

I remember my first formal drawing class... my first real introduction to light and shade. I found myself staring at a simple black telephone for close to an hour, realizing that I had never truly seen it before.

These are two instances where I realized that there was more to simple physical reality than I had been aware of. After seeing one celled animals in the microscope, and after a good long look at a telephone, the simple physical reality I'd known before was indeed not sufficient.

But there is still more there than algae and paramecium, more than complex ray tracing and reflected, absorbed and refracted light. Science has much to say about these things, and I am a big fan of science.

However there are common experiences concerning which science remains mute - or abandons its own method in favor of ridicule. As amazingly complex as a drop of water or a manmade telephone may be, human consciousness (mine anyway ;) ) is even more complex and amazing. You have said before that this consciousness itself is physical, but where are the physical sciences when it comes to this subject? The neurological sciences are indeed fascinating, but they do not explain my personal, subjective experience to me... and all attempts in that area are dismissed as "junk science." You have yourself rejected most of psychology. What hope for parapsychology?

Perhaps it is all physical... all that and nothing more. I maintain on the strength and authority of personal experience that it nonetheless is. If what some call God, and I for the moment call The Other, is no more than another aspect of the physical world... I really don't mind.

Maybe someday science will find a way to explain it all in physical terms. I don't mind that either.

You and I seek knowledge about different things in different ways. I seek to understand things that I've experienced which you do not believe exist. I don't mind that either.

Some proclaim the one true God, rejecting and demonizing the experiences of others when that experience contradicts their own revealed truth. Is science any better if it does the same?

arourapope
06-20-2003, 07:56 PM
Even if it is all physical, there are physical occurances that our physical beings on their own cannot measure. They are simply things that happen beyond our range of perception. Colors and light we cannot see, sounds we cannot hear, smells we cannot smell. For all I know what Sg's calling "the Other" may very well exist in this realm, but even though there is much of that that is measurable, I still cannot see, hear, smell it.
Is there an end to space? If there is, I doubt we'll find it anytime soon. If I look at a surface, I can't perceive the molecules that compose that surface, though I know they are there and they can be measured and observed by our machines. But even there, science reaches a limitation as to how far, how deep, it can look into that surface. At some point, the molecular structure can no longer be broken into smaller pieces..... yet. Doesn't mean it can't happen. It just means we're not capable of doing it yet.

I believe there is an entire reality that is not immediately evident. I believe that that "Other" is there. Is is physical? Maybe. Maybe the lines of "physical" are much less definable than many believe. And that's why I say it's all of that. It's everything.
Truly, isn't that what being "omniscient" would entail?

arourapope
06-21-2003, 11:16 AM
Here's something kinda cool (I think, anyway):
From an etymology dictionary~
Inspire - see SPIRIT.
Spirit - Latin spiritus originally meant 'breath': it was derived from the verb spirare 'breathe' (source of English aspire, conspire, expire, inspire, perspire, respire, transpire, etc), which probably came ultimately from the prehistoric Indo-European base *speis- or *peis- , imitative of a sound of blowing or breathing out (source also of Old Church Slavanic piskati 'whistle,' Serbo-Croat pistati 'hiss' and Old Norse fisa 'fart' :D ). But in the Augustan period it gradually began to take over as the word for 'soul' from anima (source of English animal, animate, etc), which originally denoted 'breath,' and in Christian Latin writings it was the standard term used.

If it is considered that many (probably most, actually) creation myths begin with a body of water, and the creator deity often breathes over the water (or, moves over the water), the idea of breath being connected to creativity becomes a pretty deep one.
I watched a special on cave paintings the other night. One of the techniques used by the cave painters was to blow pigment onto the wall. The scientist who was interviewed for the special said he believes it was to breathe life into the paintings. Granted, this is all conjecture, but it's interesting all the same.

One of the most important forces among the ancient Greeks (and probably among the folks that lived in that area before the Greeks settled it) was Boreas, the North Wind. Boreas was thought to bring inspiration to poets and artists. Boreas was also known to lift people off of the cliffs along the sea and carry them away. The land of Hyperborea was literally "beyond Boreas", and it was the magical land of summer and light in the midst of darkness. In other words, it was probably the land of the dead, heaven, etc. In Hyperborea there existed a temple made of honey comb and honey, from which the gods (and a few tripping mortals maybe) could gather nectar and ambrosia, the stuff of immortality.
The Bee Maidens, who lived in the Corycian Cave near the Delphic Oracle, where said to have built this honeycomb temple. They would speak prophetically when eating honey... in other words, they were inspired . These Bee Maidens taught Apollo divination. In fact, they were his nurses when he was a baby. It was believed that the Corycian Cave lead to Hyperborea.

sgtaylor
06-21-2003, 11:58 AM
I have always been fascinated by the Hyperborea myth... but most of what I've read is popularized stuff tied to the pulp fiction of Clark Ashton Smith, Robert E. Howard, and H.P. Lovecraft.

Can you recommend something that would be a little more scholarly?

Thanks!

arourapope
06-21-2003, 01:01 PM
I'll try. None of these are immediately about Hyperborea, but they go into it if you read a bit.

This guy's focus is on sacrifice, as you can tell from the title:

Burkert, William. Homo Necans: The Anthology of Ancient Greek Sacrificial Ritual and Myth. Trans. Peter Bing. Berkley: University of California Press, 1983.

~ ~ ~
Now this guy, is my personal hero in a way. Lots of really cool insights, lots of artistic inspiration too. I've talked about him a lot. I don't remember how much he actually goes into Hyperborea, but he does go into the connections between spirit and creativity a good deal. There are also several other books of his I haven't read yet, and they are on my reading list. These I've read:

Eliade, Mircea. The Forge and the Crucible (2nd ed.). Trans. Stephen Corrin. Chicago: The University of Chicago Press, 1978.

Eliade, Mircea. A History of Religious Ideas, Vol. I. Trans. William R. Trask. Chicago: The University of Chicago Press, 1978.

Eliade, Mircea. A History of Religious Ideas, Vol. II. Trans. William R. Trask. Chicago: The University of Chicago Press, 1982.

Eliade, Mircea. Myth and Reality. New York: Harper Colophon Books, 1975.

This is too big to read all the way, but if you've got free time to hang out in the reference section of the library:
The Encyclopedia of Religion. Editor in chief Mircea Eliade. New York: Macmillan Publishing Company, 1987.

~ ~ ~
This author has several books written that are good. Not sure again how much he focuses on Hyperborea, but in this first one he focuses on the Hymn to Hermes. Apollo gives Hermes the Bee Maidens for his divination purposes toward the end of the Hymn:

Kerényi, Karl. Hermes, Guide of Souls: The Mythologem of the Masculine Life Source. Trans. Murray Stein. Zurich: Spring Publications, 1976.

Another Kerenyi book that I included just cuz it's good: (Also in this one he explores the process of mead-making and its possible origins, and the traditions and myths that may have evolved from it.)

Kerényi, Karl. Prometheus: Archetypal Image of Human Existence. Trans. Ralph Manheim. New York: Bollingen Foundation, 1963.

~ ~ ~
R. Wasson you've prolly heard of. His research I think was pretty much discounted when he first started putting it out, but it's starting to get another look now. He and his associates do talk in depth about Hyperborea, and then when reading the others it becomes evident that he was onto something:

Wasson, R. Gordon, Stella Kramrisch, Jonathan Ott, and Carl A. P. Ruck. Persephone’s Quest: Entheogens and the Origins of Religion. New Haven and London: Yale University Press, 1986.

Wasson, R. Gordon, Albert Hofmann, Carl A. P. Ruck. The Road to Eleusis: Unveiling the Secret of the Mysteries. Los Angeles: William Daily Rare Books, 1998.


Have fun. :D

palmer_eldritch
06-21-2003, 01:29 PM
I hope this thread sees some (non snake-handling) action. Spirituality is a big part of my artwork, which I consider kinda figurative/symbolist/expressionist (alas the categories). I see art and spirituality as inextricably intertwined, ever since the cave painting period.

Does anyone here know of some good resources on cave painting and spirituality?

On another, related note, my extended artist's statement explains my personal feelings on art as it's related to spirituality. I'd love some opinions, tho' it's kinda a long read, so I don't want to cut n' paste the whole thing here. But It's available on my page for interested parties:

http://www.puppetslounge.com/collection/visart/2D/Jeremy/room/preamble.html

If you're inclined, I'd be interested in hearing what anyone thinks.

arourapope
06-21-2003, 09:36 PM
Hey!
I'm being as active as I can. :D I found a book on amazon I'm really interested in reading, but I haven't had the time (or funds) yet. It looks good, though, and so far it has good reviews (well, review....)
It's here:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0810941821/ref=cm_wl_vvu-pg.1-pos.2/103-6439673-2644651?v=glance&me=ATVPDKIKX0DER

BTW, I saw on another thread you'd been reading Elaine Pagels. Do you like her okay? I just got a book by her recently. I haven't started yet, as I've got library books demanding to be finished; but it looks promising.

palmer_eldritch
06-22-2003, 01:09 PM
Yow, that book does look incredible! I'll have to keep it in mind when scouring the used bookstores. Dang, I remember when I didn't have to take out a loan every time I wanted to buy a new book. What the heck happened? ;)

I haven't read everything by Pagels, just a few books, and they're kind of hit-or-miss. She writes about spirituality in what sometimes seems like an overly scholarly, kinda detached manner. However, as far as facts and hermeneutics and analysis goes, she's definitely worthwhile. I highly recommend "The Gnostic Gospels," which is probably single-handedly responsible for quite a bit of what I believe today.

Which one do you have?

arourapope
06-22-2003, 02:07 PM
Adam, Eve and the Serpent. Scholarly is what I need, actually. I'm researching for a book. Thanks. :)

Keith Russell
06-23-2003, 10:24 AM
SG, reality is exactly what it is.

As for what it 'seems', that is subjective.

Pond water contains all the diatoms, protozoans, and other microscopic bits and pieces that you observed, and it contains them whether they are being observed (by you, or anyone else) or not. Our awareness (or lack thereof) of these things in no way changes the things themselves.

K

Keith Russell
06-23-2003, 10:27 AM
Good morning:

There are parallels between the Hyperborean myth, and some of the legends surrounding the Knights Templar.

If you like this sort of thing, check out Focault's Pendulum, by Umberto Eco.

As with all of Eco's works, it is very difficult to separate which parts are historical, and which are fiction--although that could be the point of the book, after all.

K

arourapope
06-23-2003, 11:00 AM
Yes, I finally read that last year. It was quite the piece of work.
There seem to be parallels between the Knights Templar and darn near everything out there. :D
The Bee Maidens were said to be dressed in gold, and there was believed to be gold in the Corycian Cave. And actually, that's not unlikely as the entire Balkan area was pretty gold rich.... I don't know if it still is, though.
The word "gold" though, could also be referring to honey, especially if you consider the production of mead and that it predated the production of wine....
The Knights Templar, and their connection to the Grail, could be part of their association with Hyperborea. What was in the Grail? Well, it probably changed throughout history. Maybe it started out with mead, then wine, then gold with its alchemical properties... Don't forget to figure in Soma, and sacrifice, for that matter. The golden fleece? The golden apples?
Anyway, I'm just ramblin and speculating this morning. It's good to have this thread to bounce ideas around. So how are you doing today, Keith?

Keith Russell
06-23-2003, 03:49 PM
aurora:

I'm very, very busy.

But other than that, I'm doing OK...

K

Borum
06-24-2003, 08:57 AM
Originally posted by aurorapope

The Knights Templar, and their connection to the Grail, could be part of their association with Hyperborea. What was in the Grail?

Have you ever hear the legend that the "Grail" was really the child of Jesus? Legend has it that Mary Magdalene was really the wife of Jesus and was pregnant when Jesus was put to the cross; she was taken to Europe, gave birth to the child and from here sprang the royal lines of Europe. You know "divine" right to rule. Anyway is this any harder to believe than a "virgin birth?"


Oh well food for thought…..:)

kelly
06-24-2003, 09:55 AM
The virgin birth is one of the oldest stories known to mankind.....yet if you ask most christians they wouldnt have a clue.

How do you have faith if its not or can not be challenged?

arourapope
06-24-2003, 09:56 AM
Yes, I had heard that. Also that it was the womb of Mary.

Borum
06-24-2003, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by kelly
The virgin birth is one of the oldest stories known to mankind.....yet if you ask most christians they wouldnt have a clue.

How do you have faith if its not or can not be challenged?

Virgin birth….Where else does it show up?

See that is the mystery about faith, it can't be challenged. I mean I have seen guys dance with snakes because of their faith as well as pouring battery acid on their arms and not being burned. Yet if they get bitten or burned others would say that their faith wasn't strong enough. See it can't be challenged, it is a catch 22.

Have any of you ever noticed how the story of Jesus is a lot like the story of Hercules? You know father god, perform miracles, die and become a god.

Keith Russell
06-24-2003, 12:09 PM
kelly, if one is open to challenge, one is examining evidence in the attempt to discover truth.

That has nothing to do with 'faith'.

K

palmer_eldritch
06-24-2003, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by Borum
Have any of you ever noticed how the story of Jesus is a lot like the story of Hercules? You know father god, perform miracles, die and become a god.

Yeah, it's a pretty common myth cycle. "The Dying God." Also like the myths of Osiris, Mithras, Quetzalcoatl, Dionysus, etc., all of whom were born of virgins, performed miracles, crucified and returned from the dead to save humankind from its imperfection. Hell, Mithras was said to have been born on Dec. 25!

It's usually referred to as the "sun-god" myth. I like to think of it in terms of Jungian archetypes-- these myths may not be "false" in the traditional sense, but the symbols humankind uses recur in each myth regardless of the cultural context. Fascinating stuff!

Borum
06-24-2003, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by palmer_eldritch


Hell, Mithras was said to have been born on Dec. 25!



Yep all ways find this to be pretty ironic. Christians make such a fuss over Halloween not ever realizing that Christmas was once a "pagan" holiday too!


This stuff is very fascinating! My thoughts have been that basicly we have records that may go back say 6 to 7 thousand years ago. Modern man or homo sapian has been around for about 40 thousand years. So what where they doing back then?

arourapope
06-25-2003, 12:35 PM
I think what it all boils down to is that all of these myths and legends and rituals are related to each other... oftentimes just slightly evolved (and by that I mean changed, not necessarily better or worse) from each other over time.
It is only the core ideas and principles that remain the same.
As an example, we don't have the same day-to-day lives as the ancient Greeks had. What's left for us to do is to look at their beliefs and rituals (what we know of them) objectively, without preconceived notions about what they might have done that was wrong or right (in our world). And then, and only then, can we decide what, if anything, we want to adopt into our lives, and what we want to just leave to the ancient Greeks.

:D Disclaimer: the pronouns "us" and "we" were used only for the lack of better words. In no way do they mean "us" and "we" as in the people involved in this discussion. No pronouns were harmed in the making of this post.

Keith Russell
06-25-2003, 02:54 PM
aurora, I agree completely.

The problem is, and the conflict arrises from, the fact that religious persons most often defend their beliefs in toto, rather than considering that a more selective approach might work better.

K

arourapope
06-26-2003, 10:17 AM
Well, it would seem that the louder ones do, wouldn't it? lol

Here's a quote I found interesting.
"...I do not consider myths to be the oldest kind of story to appear among mankind. For if we restrict the term myth to stories that are associated with cults ... and if most of the myth plots are drawn from people's folktales and legends, than we must suppose that folktales and legends are older kinds of narratives... I would suggest that man's first narratives were accounts of striking events of the immediate past: extraordinary perils and adventures during hunts, migrations, explorations, encounters with strangers. Such elementary narratives would soon turn into legend, which, if I am right, was the first kind of traditional tale to appear. Legends offered patterns for the framing of purely fictitious stories, and so folktales were the next to appear. Origins became a subject for both legends and folktales. When a story of the origins of a cult or rite was told, then myths were born."
(Fontenrose, Joseph. Python: A Study of Delphic Myth and its Origins , p. 464)
Fontenrose also considers which came first, the myth or the rite? Well, probably the rite. Using the ancient Babylonian New Year's celebration as an example, he says:
"They are ancient magical rites, designed to expel the old year and bring in the new, to banish winter or drought and summon the season of growth and rain, to renew the king's power for another year or to inaugurate his successor; for the king embodied his community and represented the god, summing up in his own potency all the potency of his realm, which included town, field, and sky, and all the forces with in them. In the earliest celebrations of these rites no gods were necessary ; or if you will, the gods were the powers themselves, winter and storm and year and growth, all equally alive and concrete. But at first the powers or gods were coerced by the rites. Only gradually were they viewed as free actors who could decide the year's destiny; then it was that prayer began."
(Fontenrose, p. 445-446. Italics mine. )
Anyway, I found that interesting in light of this conversation. Just wanted to pass it along.
I finally finished that book. I'm getting ready to start a new one. :D

Borum
06-26-2003, 02:01 PM
Keith said:The problem is, and the conflict arrises from, the fact that religious persons most often defend their beliefs in toto, rather than considering that a more selective approach might work better.


Yes if they would only learn that you can catch many more bees with honey than salt.

Keith Russell
06-26-2003, 03:42 PM
Borum, alas.

(But, some bees cannot be caught, period.)

K

Borum
06-26-2003, 03:51 PM
but alas Keith, the easiest to catch are those who think they cannot be caught


How you been?

Keith Russell
06-26-2003, 04:48 PM
Borum, I didn't say that I was one of those bees, nor did I say that the bees that can't be caught are the ones who think they can't be caught...

...some simply can't be caught.

I've been OK. Doing rather well. Very, very busy.

It's like I've got a full-time job, and three part time jobs, and none of them pay very well, yet.

But most of them could...

...and might...

K

Borum
06-27-2003, 10:16 AM
I wasn't talking about you, it was more in line with those poor people who got caught with Jim Jones and in Waco. You know?

Man know what you are talking about staying busy. I have been so busy, I haven't had a chance to paint. Been thinking about it a lot though, kinda of like a stress management sort thing.

Keith Russell
06-30-2003, 12:41 AM
Borum, ahh yes--the dangers of dogma.

I've read a great deal about Jim Jones, Waco, Ruby Ridge, and Applewhite.

From what I've read (and experienced), it isn't a particular belief that is necessarily bad or dangerous, but it is instead the desire decision, or choice to believe in something (anything) without evidence, that leads to trouble.

(In other words, having 'faith' makes one vulnerable to such notions.)

K

Borum
06-30-2003, 11:41 AM
(In other words, having 'faith' makes one vulnerable to such notions.)

K


K I have to disagree with you on this. I have faith, and I don't feel that I would follow say a "Jim Jones" or others like him, and God knows this world is full of them. I have a faith and belief in God, and it doesn't follow any one religion or such and no I don't have any evidence to prove or disprove this, lets say it just is for me. You know I read a lot of your post, actually I look for them. Your insights and wit often give me much fuel for thought and a good chuckle, but I often get the feeling that you are searching. Searching for what I don't know, but I guess that is a journey we all take.

Later….

arourapope
07-01-2003, 01:07 AM
I think everyone is searching.

Borum
07-01-2003, 08:41 AM
aurorapope that is what makes people susceptible to the influence of others.

Call no one master or rabbi.

SanDL
07-01-2003, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by Borum


Call no one master or rabbi.

And therefore stating above with the emphasis on "no One" might safeguard against cult followings because there has been more than one master...diversity is what keeps things moving.

Keith Russell
07-01-2003, 12:06 PM
Borum, I'm here.

Might as well look around.

K

DanaT
07-01-2003, 03:55 PM
So Keith, you want to be my rabbi?

:D

Sorry, couldn't resist!

Keith Russell
07-01-2003, 05:28 PM
Dana, no.

That'd mean I'd have to get a religion...

K

DanaT
07-01-2003, 08:17 PM
Damn, Rabbi Keith sounded so good.

or maybe Your Logicness

arourapope
07-01-2003, 09:14 PM
Well, I've called no one Master or Rabbi yet. The only one I've called Father was my dad; actually he was Pops. :)
But I think the trouble mainly comes about when someone calls themselves those things. You know, like "Hello, I am Grand Master Muckety Muck of the Almighty Wackety Wack." I would have a hard time taking such a person seriously.
Your Logicness has an interesting ring, though. :D

Keith Russell
07-01-2003, 09:43 PM
...just send money.

Thanks,

K

DanaT
07-01-2003, 10:07 PM
:D

Borum
07-02-2003, 09:02 AM
Hey Keith ever looked into real estate?

RobinZ
07-02-2003, 12:36 PM
Aurora, would you have trouble calling a catholic priest "father" in a social situation? Like if you're at a funeral or wedding, and you were in a position to introduce him to someone else? Would you call the queen of England "her highness" or whatever the protocol is? My husband wouldn't. But he will call a doctor, "Dr."

arourapope
07-02-2003, 01:09 PM
Actually, Robin, I was being facetious. ;)
I have met those that have bestown honors upon themselves, though. About that I was being serious.
Sorry for the mix up.

DanaT
07-02-2003, 01:22 PM
I agree aurora. Actually there's a New Testament parable along those same lines, I'll have to look that up.

A side note: the proper etiquette for the Queen of England is to call her Ma'am.

Since I was a well-brought up Southern lady, that would be no problem. :D (not that I'd have the chance anytime soon) My brother still calls everyone older than him ma'am or sir. I have to get him to stop calling me that!

feather
07-02-2003, 05:11 PM
I would really like to say, "Good Morning, Grand Master Muckity Muck of the Almighty Wackity Wack", to a couple of people.

Keith Russell
07-03-2003, 12:22 PM
Borum, real estate?

In what context?

Buying, selling, investing in...what?

K

Borum
07-03-2003, 12:37 PM
Actually Keith all those. Last October I finally broke down and bought Carlton Sheets No Money Down program that you see on TV. It isn't a get rich scheme, but it does have its merits. The only reason I mention this to you is because some of the things you have said in other posts strike me that you are looking to do something. Actually I would have felt better about putting this is a PM, but apparently you don't check those!HaHaHa:) :) :)

Keith Russell
07-03-2003, 03:01 PM
Borum, I do check my PMs--I just seem to get a tremendous number of them, so my mail-box fills up, and no new mail can be posted to me.

I have been considering a couple business opportunities, but I've decided to drop one completely, and lessen my own involvement with the other. My wife is getting more involved with it, instead.

I need to draw, paint, and exhibit, more than anything else.

K

sgtaylor
07-07-2003, 11:36 PM
Watch out for those real estate plans... It ain't as good a deal as they make it out to be... and sometimes people go to jail.

As for bestowing titles upon yourself... as a Pope in the Discordian faith... I have granted myself the title of "My Holiness."

I use it in all official correspondence with "The Whole Sick Crew." (My flock.)

They of course ignore me for the most part...

Which is how it should be.

arourapope
07-07-2003, 11:55 PM
well, okay. It gets difficult when Pope is your last name..... :p

mame
07-08-2003, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by Keith Russell
Borum, I do check my PMs--I just seem to get a tremendous number of them, so my mail-box fills up, and no new mail can be posted to me.

I have been considering a couple business opportunities, but I've decided to drop one completely, and lessen my own involvement with the other. My wife is getting more involved with it, instead.

I need to draw, paint, and exhibit, more than anything else.

K

I know you hate tangents....but have you thought about getting in on the new airbrush tan fad? You could even teach classes on how to do it!

Get in, make some bucks and get out before pet rocks come back.
Also - good eye/hand/memory activity. By "painting" on a real/actual body - think about how beneficial for your figure work!

Keith Russell
07-08-2003, 12:26 PM
Hmmm.

Airbrushed tanning? I don't think that's arrived in Kansas yet, but I'll need to check to make sure.

I am getting ready to buy the equipment I'll need, to be able to paint designs (and yes, murals) on cars, vans, trucks, motorcycles, boats, helmets, jackets, etc.

K

mame
07-08-2003, 05:15 PM
I think there's some bucks in this for you, Keith.
The initial investment is miniscule......you have the equipment and the know-how.......a small shop on main street........franchising your technique........teaching tatoo artists who want to expand........talk about spiritual creativity!

http://www.protanningsystems.com/scripts/depot.exe?pgm=tangate.bbx

http://www.philipbacongalleries.com/

:D now, smile, damn it!

DanaT
07-08-2003, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by aurorapope
well, okay. It gets difficult when Pope is your last name..... :p

LOL aurora :D

dodger
07-11-2003, 02:33 AM
Actually, I usually call priests "padre" & doctors, vets & dentists "doc". Not in a disrespectful way... they know. Somehow, I doubt if I'll ever meet the queen... at one time, women were supposed to curtsy... oh, I don't think so. ;)

Keith Russell
07-11-2003, 09:41 AM
Thanks, mame.

We'll see...

K

arourapope
07-11-2003, 10:07 AM
Do you know how to curtsy?

dodger
07-11-2003, 02:39 PM
Hehe... me? Curtsy? :p

They did try to teach it in school when I was a little gomer... at that time, we were supposed to know royal etiquette... & dresses were a lot fuller at that time. I can't see how you could do it with the style of evening gowns these days. I wanted to just bow like the boys... it was a lot easier... & I still want a tux! ;)

arourapope
07-18-2003, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by palmer_eldritch
Does anyone here know of some good resources on cave painting and spirituality?


I wanted to revive this thread to tell you that I'm about halfway through with The Mind in the Cave , by David Lewis- Williams. It's pretty interesting, with some innovative theories. Thought you might be interested.

DanaT
07-18-2003, 03:00 PM
thanks aurora.