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rapolina
06-19-2003, 09:07 AM
is it "valid" to draw in pencil before using ink?
what do you do?

sorry for my silly questions, but i'm trying to find the best way to improve...:confused:

ciao, rapolina.

artdude
06-19-2003, 09:21 AM
Sometimes the ink doesn't want to go over graphite very well. So what I normally do is just start out with a light line drawing in pencil. I then do all of the ink work and leave the graphite work until last. Look forward to seeing a graphite and ink drawing from you :D:)

Gutshot
06-19-2003, 11:16 AM
Sure is. I'd bet you'd be hard pressed to find anyone doing anything more than sketches without pencil layout.

DSPIT
06-19-2003, 12:22 PM
rapolina- Yes you can, doesn't mean you must. But if you need a skectch to work from, as we know, once ink is down, very hard to change, Using a pencil drawing as a guide is a good way.

Like Murray says, it can become difficult depending on the pencil type, how much of it, the ink type and the paper type. All of those conditions will interact differently.

I would say for an exercise, do a pencil drawing you know you want to do in ink. after you do that. transfer the outlines of most of the drawing to a new sheet. use something like a normal 2b pencil with a light touch as to not "dent" the surface. Do not fill in shaded areas with pencil, you can leave some marks as to where you might want to shade, but try on the transfer to use as little graphite as you can. When you are happy with that,( you can erase some, but try not to do that much as the surface will suffer) outline your work with your pen tool and using a good waterproof ink. Erase your pencil lines. Start from there. If you dont trust yourself and want to sketch in some more pencil lines, try on a piece of cheap paper ovear the top of your inking so you can get an idea of how it will look (use pencil as the ink may seep through and ruin your piece). Although, once inked it never looks the same.

I have seen this done a lot, and I agree with gutshot that most people, especially when they are learning to become better do this. Remember, the methods are tools, and anything that gets you in the end what you want to see is legal, as long as it is not Plagurism.

Bob

Jakeally
06-19-2003, 03:38 PM
I always draw the main outline (or trace it) from my reference pic in pencil before inking....I wouldn't be confident enough in my own abilities to do it in ink. I haven't had any trouble with the ink not adhereing to the graphite yet....that's not to say I wouldn't in the future:rolleyes:

jjsangel
06-19-2003, 07:49 PM
I always draw mine out in pencil first, lightly, then go over it with ink. I don't always follow the lines exactly. Then I erase lightly with a clic eraser. Sometimes when I'm doing the ink I change things or add things that weren't drawn, but the main body is pencil first. I've never had a problem with the ink not going over the graphite as long as it is light.

DragonladyfromOz
06-19-2003, 07:53 PM
All good pieces of advice here rapolina ... especially about using REALLY light reference points. I made a big mistake by sketching and rubbing out continuously on one piece and found that I ruined the surface of the paper and the dots all bled into one furry great blob.:mad: It definitely pays to practice on a scrap piece of the paper you are going to use first to see how it will react and work.
Another thing I do if the paper isn't too heavy is use a 'light table' [mine is an old glass table with a lamp under it]. I make the sketch, draw over it in dark pencil or pen, and then tape them together and outline the main parts in a line of little ink dots - I use the smallest pen size I have for this. That way I can turn it into a soild line if I want to later. I have also been known to stand at a window for a couple of hours doing the same thing :D You can guess how many cello-tape marks are still on the window...:evil:
If you are doing a combination of ink and graphite, you may also want to check out the work of a WC member called Newwings. I asked the same sorts of questions of him in one of the threads. I will see if I can find it ...
Cheers
Manda

captan
06-20-2003, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by DragonladyfromOz
Another thing I do if the paper isn't too heavy is use a 'light table' [mine is an old glass table with a lamp under it].

Yeah, light tables are great for this - I usually draw the entire drawing in graphite first and then I just fasten a new fresh piece of paper on top of it with paper clips and ink by tracing the entire drawing with the lighttable I built myself. (I even wrote an article about how to build one: http://www.wetcanvas.com/Articles2/14313/247/ )

Every once in a while I just slide the paper of the light table part of my table and have a look at it in normal light, actually I'm so used to this, I can ink the entire pic with light coming from underneath with no problems whatsoever. And I don't have to erase the graphite afterwards - which is nice.

And you CAN use heavy paper as well. Well,... at least I can since I have a bad habit of pressing really, really hard when I draw with pencils so my pencil lines are almost darker than my inked lines...

DSPIT
06-20-2003, 02:24 PM
I have the same kind of light table Manda does. An old round glass table sitting on top of some brackets you nail to your garage wall to hang stuff. Use your imagination, anything clear or opaque will work as long as you can get nice lamp under it. I used this method to add the girl in my latest post "jungle girl" , it worked out pretty good.

Bob

Lumina
06-20-2003, 06:38 PM
90% of the time I use a pencil sketch to work from. Basically it is just the "outline" of the piece since the ink does not go well over the graphite.

rapolina
06-23-2003, 11:28 AM
thank you for yours answers! i'm really surprised, as i thought that the most drew directly in pen :p ...
i thought it was just me needing a pencil.

wow, i feel better!;) ;)

ciao, rapolina.

sassybird
06-23-2003, 01:44 PM
I have used graphite and pen together several times. Like Murray I do a very light sketch for the inking and then work the graphite. If you are doing straight ink work be careful to keep the sketch very light, or you will run into the problem Murray spoke of. For ink work I always do a sketch to keep everything in perspective.