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barriespapa
06-01-2012, 10:01 PM
Can anyone tell me where I can find some learning material or thread on this subject. Maybe a thread that has a wip. I have really hit a stumbling block with this. I have tried 4 times to get a resonable resemblace to the actual vine but know matter what I try it comes out looking like a rather flat tree in front of the building. I had originally thought that if I put in small shadows on the wall it would tie them to the wall but no such luck.
would appreciate any help at all with this.
David

allydoodle
06-02-2012, 01:09 AM
Deborah Secor did a painting of some vines on a wall, you can take a look at it here. (http://www.deborahchristensen.com/Pastels.html)Look at the first painting on the top row at the left. She got it to work because of the cast shadow, but the painting is all about the vine and the cast shadow. You are painting a much more complex subject (I assume it is the brick building you are working on?), so I don't think this much detail is needed. Just an indication of the shadow, but the direction the shadow is falling is important, you need stay true to the light source you have in the painting, especially if you are making it up. I hope this helps you a bit David! Also, the shape is important. Try to not make it look like the shape of a tree, force the viewer to think 'vine'.

Take a look at this image (http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=A0PDoQ0RkslPm0QA5eGJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBlMTQ4cGxyBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1n?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3F_adv_prop%3Dimage%26va%3Dpainting%2Bvine%2Bon%2Ba%2Bbuilding%26fr%3Dvz-portal%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D24&w=234&h=350&imgurl=wwwdelivery.superstock.com%2FWI%2F223%2F1566%2FPreviewComp%2FSuperStock_1566-535904.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.superstock.co.uk%2Fstock-photos-images%2F1566-535904&size=63+KB&name=...+Storey%2C+Three%2C+Vertical%2C+Vine%2C+Vines+%281566-535904%29+Stock+Photo+Image&p=painting+vine+on+a+building&oid=bbe0a2347734433b884b8769f3fe1eac&fr2=&fr=vz-portal&tt=...%2BStorey%252C%2BThree%252C%2BVertical%252C%2BVine%252C%2BVines%2B%25281566-535904%2529%2BStock%2BPhoto%2BImage&b=0&ni=144&no=24&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=11rr2lcol&sigb=13q4lbs2i&sigi=12di2japm&.crumb=2Whxy/opnEj), maybe it will help.

Also, take a look at this:

http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=A0PDoQ1WkslPF18AjniJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBlMTQ4cGxyBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1n?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Dpainting%2Bvine%2Bon%2Ba%2Bbuilding%26phrase%3D1%26_adv_prop%3Dimage%26va%3Dpainting%2Bvine%2Bon%2Ba%2Bbuilding%26fr%3Dvz-portal%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D106&w=1600&h=1200&imgurl=2.bp.blogspot.com%2F_E5i-p5Gc3qs%2FS_ut4ZXLM-I%2FAAAAAAAAAds%2FipXm9crAhkc%2Fs1600%2Fstone_wall_with_ivy_4193161.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Flandscapeofmeaning.blogspot.com%2F2010%2F05%2Foxford-study-finds-that-ivy-can-protect.html&size=582.4+KB&name=grounded+design%3A+Oxford+Study+Finds+that+Ivy+Can+Protect+Walls&p=painting+vine+on+a+building&oid=4c28cedaed6dee696d671f9d0fbac3fb&fr2=&fr=vz-portal&tt=grounded%2Bdesign%253A%2BOxford%2BStudy%2BFinds%2Bthat%2BIvy%2BCan%2BProtect%2BWalls&b=91&ni=144&no=106&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=12rh4rvmv&sigb=1524gkk26&sigi=1380912b0&.crumb=2Whxy/opnEj

jackiesimmonds
06-02-2012, 05:08 AM
David, you need to get out and LOOK at the ivy on the building, and the trees in front. The photo is not helpful (neither is the shape of the ivy on the left, it DOES look like a tree! You can alter that a bit by looking at the rest of the ivy on the building)

The main thing to remember - and notice - easier with the naked eye - is that the trees are closer to you than the ivy, so yu will see more leaves on the trees than ivy leaves. And even if you can see all the ivy leaves, you dont want to show them...it is the difference in TEXTURE that will bring the trees forward, and will "knit" the ivy with the wall.

I did a quick rendering myself to show you what I mean. Looks a bit odd with the window unfinished and the tree unfinished, but it shows the principle at work.

Notice how the tree's leaves are, in the light, picking up the pale blue of the sky, so you need dark notes for the shadows, and several different kinds of lights for the leaves collecting sunlight, yellowy green for sunlight, and paler blueygreen for reflected light from the sky.

Try using a lighter touch, too, cos it makes it harder to add the ivy over the wall if the wall is painted very thickly. It helps to have a touch of red in the ivy, but too much causes problems. I would also not bother with the shadows in the ivy, because the contrast will pull the ivy forwards. What you want is to show that the sunlight is bathing - and slightly bleaching - both wall, and ivy, TOGETHER. And the ivy is a different green to the leaves of the tree, it is more yellow.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Jun-2012/1805-ivy.jpg

sketchZ1ol
06-02-2012, 03:22 PM
hello
good advice coming in !
- colour , growing conditions , relative contrasts .

have you looked into the RIL , or Flickr ?

some separate studies might be useful .
> you may be able to ' draw ' your own conclusions :D

Ed :}

Deborah Secor
06-02-2012, 06:13 PM
David, I don't know if this relates to what you're doing, but check out this thread (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243341)and especially the close up shots in post #17. :wave:

barriespapa
06-03-2012, 09:58 AM
Hi Chris thanks with all your help on this thread and the painting thread in the gallery, also for the links they were most helpful.
Jackie your rendering was extremely helpful with a trip out to the site and the use of your rendering.I think I will be able to come up with a reasonable climbing ivy.
hi Deborah nice to hear from you and thank you for the links to your painting, which I thought was very well done. Even though the subject is quite different you have given me an insight to what I may be able to use
to make my ivy more realistic and yet still have no great detail if you wish to view the results they will eventually be in my thread called potential plein air in the gallery.
David