PDA

View Full Version : Two paintings..same artist (same respect for ALL things feminine)


MichaelRH
11-02-2000, 03:10 PM
Cindy - per your request..I've decide to post two paintings.
The first: "Study in Pink and Yellow" is one of my wife's favorites. She has it hanging on the wall. I can't take a bit of credit for the original image..my painting is based entirely on a beautiful photo I saw in Vogue magazine. I thought the woman was beautiful..and the colors. I did it for practice. It is NOT a very good painting..and the lower left-hand corner is not even finished.

The second images is by FAR!!!!! the more important of the two. (to me) It is called "Girl Adjusting Her Shoe". Again, I think the woman depicted in this "expressive" painting is VERY!!! beautiful. It is by far the more erotic piece, I find the erotic/exotic natures (which I feel are but a part of a woman's femininty) extremely facinating. Not demeaning. Color..again, is important to me.
I agree with you Cindy..our sexuality (IMHO) is (should be!) cause for celebration. Eros!
There is a wonderful!!!! book that deals with religion and creativity by James Fox (Larry you are familiar with this book)..much of it deals with a celebration of our sexuality and our creativity.
Althought both of these paintings are very different...they both represent my VERY high regard for ONLY one aspect of the many different "natures" of women. Most women I know..enjoy their feminity and the fact that men find them attractive. These things that I find outwardly appealing..do not at all exclude my appreciation for MANY other things about women..INCLUDING their intelligence. I truly feel women think much more creatively than do men. I've seen far more examples of "destructive" thinking in males than in females.
Cindy, I hope these two paintings set the stage for some lively discussion!! http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/wink.gif
<IMG SRC="http://www.wetcanvas.com/Critiques/User/pinkandyellow1.jpg" border=0>

Below: "Girl Adjusting Her Shoe"
<IMG SRC="http://www.wetcanvas.com/Critiques/User/Girladjshoe.jpg" border=0>

btw: I have three days off. I'll be attempting to complete my commission, but I will make a point of visiting the Cafe Guerbois this evening, and on and off for the next three days. Hope to catch a lot of you there!!!! Hugs, Michael

btw, has anyone hear the song by Meredith Brooks, on her cassette "Blurring the Edges"...called "Bitch". Although her title SOUNDS demeaning...her song is an affirmation about these different "sides" of women..characteristics that I find EXTREMELY facinating. The lyrics make me think she is quite happy with who she is, and not ashamed of all of the things that make up her personality. (I have listened to it over and over when I paint!!) http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif A GREAT song! By a woman.



[This message has been edited by MichaelRH (edited November 02, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by MichaelRH (edited November 02, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by MichaelRH (edited November 02, 2000).]

JayDAnderson
11-02-2000, 03:56 PM
I like the woman fixing her shoes best. Kind of reminds me of the hot girl that sits in an office across from mine. She does that to me all the time. I can't say just how much I appreciate her. I appreciate the painting too.


[This message has been edited by JayDAnderson (edited November 02, 2000).]

jerryW
11-02-2000, 04:02 PM
I like JDA's Self Portrait which has appeared in appreciation of the rejoicing in sexuality and everything.
I concurr there is more appeal in the shoe adjustment than the vogue pose, while both volupuate plenty.

CindyAgathocleous
11-02-2000, 04:19 PM
The young woman in the Vogue pose is exquisite. Great colors! I love the yellow & pink light & shadow on her legs. The composition is nice - good flow. Nice contrast between the angles of her legs and the curves of the cloth. Her expression is challenging and intelligent. I see her as a woman in charge of her own sexuality. The clothes are tasteful and alluring. I'd hang it in my home also.

***

The feeling of the piece reminds me of the singer Madonna. She enjoys sex, enjoys being sexy but is in charge of herself and her sexuality. She's no push over - no object for a man to use but a full blooded human being interested in enjoying a sexual relationship with another human being.

***

Looking sexy, enjoying sex - enjoying men's enjoyment of you - does not make you an object. It makes you human.

CindyAgathocleous
11-02-2000, 04:31 PM
The woman adjusting her shoe is more accessible; more down to earth. The style of the piece contributes to this feeling - casual and warm. The way the face is distorted more than the body makes the face the more interesting aspect of the piece. You keep returning to look at it - wondering who is she? what is she feling? what is she thinking? Is she uncomfortable? who is she with?

To me the dostortions humanize her. No distant, unattainable goddess is this woman... more like Aunt Milly... Does Aunt Milly do that stuff? Is she interested in sex? Would she expose herself?

Real people are interested in sex - that's what I get from this piece.

Being more aware of women as human beings instead of as sex objects does not preclude the enjoyment of sex or sexiness in women, imo.

cleo
11-02-2000, 04:42 PM
Michael
You can't change minds that are set. Do your
thing. When you start painting (subjects you
want to paint) for anyone else you prostitute
your work! Commissions are different!

cleo

CindyAgathocleous
11-02-2000, 04:49 PM
Is this a painting of a sex kitten?


<IMG SRC="http://www.wetcanvas.com/Critiques/User/sargen33.jpg" border=0>


John Singer Sargent

tammy
11-02-2000, 08:47 PM
Mike , I think your wife has good taste. I like the first one.

------------------
Tammy "I MUST be an Artist, artist".

AmyH
11-02-2000, 09:09 PM
It is not possible for that man to be a sex kitten in the same sense as a woman, like in the Sargent post in the debate forum I say:

on a dark street at night it is not the man unknown to me who is anxious, it is me. My husband has much less fear (or no fear) than I do when it comes to driving alone to Spokane (5 hr drive) than I do. The serial rapist murderer has been caught there but another will fill his shoes. Male on female rape and violence keeps the male sex kitten vs female sex kitten thing from ever being equal no matter how much we sexualize/objectify the male.

AmyH

Capart
11-03-2000, 08:55 AM
I TOTALLY agree with Amy!
I like the paintings too!!
Second one the most! http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif

teac
11-03-2000, 09:26 AM
it all boils down to a matter of personal taste, doesn't it. If I like the one, to hang in my living room, maybe it goes with my decor, or it is of a subject matter that makes the buyer want to sit by it and reflect. Your wife likes the first, and you like the second. No problem. However, you have already shown the preference to painting in the second style, and you should continue to do so. If a market comes out in favour of this style, then everything is roses. If not, well, you did paint it to express your own self, which is why we paint, yes? YOu are a very versitile and expressive painter. I hazard a guess that since you have mastered realism, it has become boring in your eyes maybe meaningless in fully expressing your inner vision. Whatever, you are a master of either style. Enjoy. http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif

Linda Ciallelo
11-03-2000, 10:32 AM
Both paintings are very good, but there is more to life than sex. I feel that you are going through a "stage" and that eventually you will tire of this and move on to other subjects.
Linda

CindyAgathocleous
11-03-2000, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by Linda Ciallelo:
Both paintings are very good, but there is more to life than sex. I feel that you are going through a "stage" and that eventually you will tire of this and move on to other subjects.
Linda

Like fruit? http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/wink.gif

Linda Ciallelo
11-03-2000, 11:46 AM
Cindy, when I paint "fruit" I am thinking of light and color. It doesn't matter what I am painting, as long as the light,color, and texture are interesting. I like the magic that happens when I can make pastel and paper into a three -d object with sunlight shining on it.( My first love is people though, you haven't seen any of my people yet.) That is why Michaels two girls are both good. They are really paint on canvas, but they have become people that make "him" and others, feel sexy.He has the ability to make anything out of paint, become real. He chooses sex as his subject. Of course "fruit" is not better than sex, unless ,of course, you're starving, or tired of being bombarded at every turn with sex ,sex, sex. Sex is used to sell everything, from newspapers to cars to presoftened butter.
Linda

MichaelRH
11-03-2000, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by Linda Ciallelo:
I feel that you are going through a "stage" and that eventually you will tire of this and move on to other subjects.
Linda

Hi Linda - Actually, my primary focus..is communication. Sex...is not a word that I think of if I were to describe the "focus" of my work. Eroticism perhaps.
I mentioned this in another post..that I'm very interested (recently) in multiple-figure compositions..how people communicate..how people interact. I find the visual possibilities of that "geometry" very interesting..in terms of subject matter.
My single figure paintings all tend to emphasize the figure #1. I feel any erotic over-tones are secondary..even though these over-tones are certainly there..in most of my work. But, this association is the result of the fact that I do regard the "energy" of creativity as erotic/sensual. The word "erotic" encompasses..a very broad range of material.
So, since I....(like Picasso!!),know my work will continue to change over time...any new "stages" will continue to involve the figure....female AND!!! male.
I don't feel that I am (at all) involved in a stage that is predominately about sex. Michelangelo's figures are erotic to me..the human form..in MANY images, is sensual-(to me).
I suppose it does appear that 99% of the work I do is about...sex, but it does not appear that way to me.
I average about 3 drawings a day. (Sometimes..many more). (I wish I could get that many paintings done a month!!!!). Many different ideas going on.
I think there will ALWAYS be a degree of erotic content in my work..that and the fact that I will ALWAYS work with the figure. I really can't draw fast enough...I'll NEVER be at a loss for subject matter. They human form...can convey so much. I can use it to convey most everything I have to say.It is exciting for me...all the possibilities.
Klimt, Schiele, Picasso, Fischl, Rodin..on and on....for all of them...the figure was a means to an end. (that end being..communication)
I think it would be EXTREMELY difficult to paint a figure...that didn't say SOMETHING! Even if the use of the figure in the painting...just said to the viewer "BORING!!!!!!!!!!!!" or (lol) even worse.."WHAT a WASTE of time/talent"!!
So, yes Linda..there may be "stages", but there is no other subject for me than the figure.

(Now-(lol), will I slip back now and then into adolescent representations of the figure?)..that is VERY possible! lol
Will I do work that isn't very good (for any reason you can think of..) Yep!..and even though I'm VERY critical..some work..sneaks by. It is very hard to come up with a "masterpiece" each time out. Not sure how that works for everyone else here at WC..??
It is my goal to do work that might be considered noteworthy..at least on some level.

[This message has been edited by MichaelRH (edited November 03, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by MichaelRH (edited November 03, 2000).]

mukka
11-03-2000, 08:50 PM
I have to say that I am not the most interested person of erotic style art. For those who think that Michael is doing his work for sexual expoitation purposes, I think that they have judged him wrong. I do not see women that are not wanting and willing to show areas that I would not choose to show to the world, but rather vibrant young women who are quite pleased to show off. It is quite easy to see that they are qiqqling etc... If he wanted to exploit they would be sullen and not so happy to do it etc...they are quite happily showing their personality.

figgby
11-03-2000, 09:50 PM
Michael i really like the first pic. I also like the second one but more from a viewpoint of fun. I think it is hilarious. Cka I was about to pay you a compliment on the male nude and then I saw the name at the bottom. I like it a lot especially the way the figure has a feeling of escaping or pulling out of its' background. I have seen some photos taken in italy of some of michael angelo's work, where it looks as if the figure is trying to pull free from the stone. They are very moving. Amy I think it is a horrible thing to live in fear. especially fear of men. Maybe you should take some self defense classes and maybe feel safer for having done it.

paintfool
11-04-2000, 12:16 AM
Amy, why do you continually associate sex with rape? Women may be regarded as 'sex kittens' by many but i don't think that's because they're easy to rape! I think it's more because of the lack of accesability to men. If a woman wants to find a sexual partner, even for just one night, she can do it. Easily. If a man has the same desire he may have to work at it for a bit longer. This causes mystique & curiosity on the part of the male. The chase is a major part of foreplay for some. This is why men idealize women as sexual creatures. It hasn't a thing to do with rape! It's only my opinion, of course, but These two paintings in question have nothing to do with rape, nor does sex.
Oh! Sorry Micheal, about the paintings...The first is sensual and beautiful. The second is sensual and fun. There's not a thing wrong with either piece as a display of mans attraction to women. They make a slightly different statements. The first being "aren't I georgeous?" The second says "aren't i georgous? I'm also fun. I'm probably more friendly than that gal in the other painting!"
Cheryl

paintfool
11-04-2000, 12:23 AM
BTW Amy, i forgot to add: I do respect your opinions and no one is more against the abuse of women and thier image more than i. I realize how difficult it can be sometimes to be taken seriously, as a women, in a male dominated world. I just don't see the connection between these wonderful paintings and the struggle for respect by women. Michael, i realize that this is the wrong forum for this discussion. My appologies.
Cheryl

Linda Ciallelo
11-05-2000, 01:30 AM
Michael, I think you are using the term erotic in a different way than I would. I would call your second painting "erotic", not the first. I would never have thought of Michelangelos people as being "erotic". To me they are simply beautiful. To me erotic is not synonymous(sp?) with beautiful. Maybe that has something to do with being a different gender than you. I think that you already may be into a different "stage" if you are interested in human relationships, other than sexual relationships. Surely there are relationships that are not sexual that have large amounts of energy. I like to draw children, but I certainly wouldn't call my drawings "erotic".
Linda

MichaelRH
11-05-2000, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by Linda Ciallelo:
To me erotic is not synonymous(sp?) with beautiful.
Surely there are relationships that are not sexual that have large amounts of energy.
Linda

Linda - I agree with both of your statements. I tend to use the term erotic...when the term sensual might be a better choice. And certainly the words erotic and sensual may not apply at all to a landscape or still-life painting.
One thing I feel very strongly about is how very limited (and limiting) or language is. I've commented about this in a number of posts. Labels, words...they really do ONLY convey so much. We only have words to "describe" anything. I suppose we could choose to paint a painting to describe another paint!!!and another to describe that painting...
Semantics...word usage...words really do mean different things to different people..my wife and I argue points of meaning all the time.
Metaphor is a great word...it means we use one "thing"-(ohoh, that word again!)..to describe another ..and you know what..that is ALL we can do.
Leaves the doors open for a LOT!!!!!!!!! of misunderstanding and miscommunication. In my opinion.




[This message has been edited by MichaelRH (edited November 05, 2000).]

Petie
11-05-2000, 03:29 PM
I am glad to see your painting of <u>Study in Pink and Yellow</u>. It shows your true range, and I am impressed. So often artists are known for their signature style and that is abstracted from reality so much that some viewers wonder if the artist is limited to a more simplistic form. I knew what you are going for in your exagerations that reach for the illussiveness of sexuality oozing from a woman. Just the realistic renderings will not bring out the secretions of desire. Even if it is not of a sexual nature, exagerations and distortions can transmit a truer emotional rawness to the viewer - like as in <u>The Scream</u>.

MichaelRH
11-05-2000, 05:31 PM
Petie - I enjoyed meeting you in the Cafe last night..quite a night...lots of fun.

Thank you for thinking beyond the extreme limitations of our mediums of expression.!!!!

You've touched on ONE of many of my reasons..for painting a painting.

You and Francis Bacon were on the right track regarding trying to express emotion. What does being happy, in love, mad...bored...really LOOK like to each one of us. How can we express ANYTHING...in this life..without using a metaphor..of SOME kind???? A challenge to all of you here at Wetcanvas. Good luck!!!!!!!!! http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/wink.gif

Petie
11-05-2000, 06:34 PM
Thank you Michael - yes, we had a fun time in the cafe last night - it was quite lively and excellent conversations about art. I was familiar with your work and I knew who I was talking with when you met me last night, at least I know where you are coming from in an artistic direction. I hope you do not change your quest for what you are seeking. You are following an electrical current and if you break it even for a second, it is gone. It will lead you where it wills and you must follow or be lost. I see great progression in your work. I am glad to see your reference to Egon Schiele and Klimpt. Don't forget Freud's nephew, Lucian. There is so much raw emotion and such a great energy field in the human body and the sexuality of it, no wonder it has been the subject of artists for time immortal. I really appreciated seeing "Study" in itself, but especially so I can understand your realistic abilities better. You certainly did a beautiful painting - almost looked airbrushed - shades of Breck illustration style. I especially liked the reflections of yellow and purple in the leg. Personally, if I were advising (and I am NOT!), I would incorporate that look more into your style, because it is more sensual to me. Both styles get at the core of what we humans are interested in. "Study" shows true emotions, too - so don't discount realism as a means of expression.

[This message has been edited by Petie (edited November 05, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Petie (edited November 05, 2000).]

MichaelRH
11-06-2000, 08:32 AM
Petie - thank you VERY!!!! much. I will give those things you suggested some serious thought.
I hope I see you in the Cafe again soon, I would like to know more about your work..goals..anything you'd care to share.
Lucian Freud...yes..very strong work. And...lol, I think his figures are (beautiful)!!for a lot of reasons. (all of them)
I'm SURE I'm over-using this word lately but we only have so many adjectives to pull from.
Talk with you soon!

arteitaliana
11-06-2000, 08:30 PM
I like the first one more. I find it more intense and direct. The second is...trying too hard, and has a cartoon quality that I find distracting. That said, I should also add that I admire of your proficiency with the medium and your drawing skill.

henrik
11-07-2000, 06:07 PM
I agree with Rita. The cartoon feeling in the second painting does not do it for me. It becomes a caricature of something, but I don't understand of what/who...

Danny
06-03-2001, 02:47 PM
The Tops Hot The Bottoms Not.This Has A Apeal Without Being Over Erotic!!! http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif

belladonna
06-03-2001, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by Linda Ciallelo:
Both paintings are very good, but there is more to life than sex. Linda

More to life than sex!!! Are you well!!! There is preciouse little in life that is more fun, more rewarding, more interesting than sex http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/biggrin.gif *lol*

poeticja
06-03-2001, 03:04 PM
bravo..I find both of these paintings well done. I find a female sensuality and sexuality in both of them although they are done differently. The poses seem to work well with the color and lighting. Keep up the good work.

ArtyHelen
06-03-2001, 03:30 PM
Just an observation - how come Danny seems to be bringing up a lot of rather old posts?

Helen

------------------
Visit me!
http://pencilartist.50megs.com

cleo
06-03-2001, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by Linda Ciallelo:
Cindy, when I paint "fruit" I am thinking of light and color. It doesn't matter what I am painting, as long as the light,color, and texture are interesting.
Linda

I know that I'm taking this out of context to
some degree, but all of the above are only
useful if the subject has meaning! Other
wise, the painting may be pretty, tech.
correct, . . . but ART?

cleo

cleo
06-03-2001, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by paintfool:
Amy, why do you continually associate sex with rape? Women may be regarded as 'sex kittens' by many but i don't think that's because they're easy to rape! I think it's more because of the lack of accesability to men. If a woman wants to find a sexual partner, even for just one night, she can do it. Easily. If a man has the same desire he may have to work at it for a bit longer. This causes mystique & curiosity on the part of the male. The chase is a major part of foreplay for some. This is why men idealize women as sexual creatures. It hasn't a thing to do with rape! It's only my opinion, of course, but These two paintings in question have nothing to do with rape, nor does sex.
Oh! Sorry Micheal, about the paintings...The first is sensual and beautiful. The second is sensual and fun. There's not a thing wrong with either piece as a display of mans attraction to women. They make a slightly different statements. The first being "aren't I georgeous?" The second says "aren't i georgous? I'm also fun. I'm probably more friendly than that gal in the other painting!"
Cheryl

What ever the reason, ALL of us MALES must
deal with the situation as we are subjected
to it. To me, an activist is one who lives
life in a positive manner.

Don't blame AmyH or anyone else for the
behavior of others or the mind set that their
behavior causes (them) anyone to react.
Depending on the reaction to an act, there
can and are many different reactions.

One must live according to their view. Some
or even many may dissagree. If I believe it,
what difference does anyone else's view
matter?

cleo

MichaelRH
06-03-2001, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by ArtyHelen:
Just an observation - how come Danny seems to be bringing up a lot of rather old posts?
Helen


Helen..I've noticed this myself today. Oh well, still room for discussion I suppose! lol

MichaelRH
06-03-2001, 05:34 PM
For the record, the sensual, erotic side of our lives holds a LOT of interest for me, in terms of depicting eroticism..sensuality..and our sexuality in a great deal of my artwork. (Lots of room for exploration here).

I think our sexual natures..are very much a part of our lives..AND...our creativity.

I believe there is a great deal of beauty in our forms of.."sensual" communication..or there certainly CAN be. I think sensual "communication" can be and should be a cause for joy...celebration. I can tie this kind of communication in with the pleasure I feel when sailing along a beautiful lagoon, watching the sunrise (or sunset) high up above Trail Ridge in the Rocky Mountain National Park...camping in the desert with a full-moon. (just to name a few associations).

I agree (obviously) there is more to life than sex! lol But there are and have been many important artists who feel the exploration of erotic/sensual/sexual themes warrents exploration...and has value..in terms of our self-expression. http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif

For an artist to explore one or two themes during his or her life-times..can appear to be a "passionate" exploration or an "obsessive" exploration..and neither word...need to connote a negative association. Things we find fascinating...are things worthy of our passion. (imo).

Victor
06-03-2001, 06:13 PM
I Like the first one, the second does nothing for me and I don't find either of them erotic but they are brilliantly painted

Vic.... http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif

cleo
06-03-2001, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by ArtyHelen:
Just an observation - how come Danny seems to be bringing up a lot of rather old posts?

Helen



It could be that Danny is new here and has
gone back to see what has gone on before?
Is something more relevant because it has
been presented today or has been seen for
the first time?

I remember the first time I saw many of the
Masters. Was my impression less valid?

Danny and others will get caught up! I enjoy
the new input!

cleo

cleo
06-03-2001, 06:56 PM
I have only left my work here for 48 to 72
hours. I may re-think this!

cleo

------------------
cleo - To promote fine art where ever in the world I find it!

IRDOC
07-02-2001, 05:27 PM
you must paint what you feel.
Doc:clap:

emberton
07-02-2001, 06:11 PM
Big debate about two less than average paintings

MichaelRH
07-02-2001, 06:27 PM
Originally posted by emberton
Big debate about two less than average paintings

Ron...this is not really a big debate (compaired to some of the others that I've seen at Wetcanvas), and it is not only about the two "less than average paintings". But, thank you for you thoughts about the two paintings.

I think if members waited to post ONLY what they feel are "masterpieces"....we MIGHT find very little to look at here at Wetcanvas. I often post work that I realize may not be my best.

Both paintings were posted due to comments I had read in another thread to illustrate a point.

The thread is about how we each define words like "sensual" or "pornographic".

Gollator
07-02-2001, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by emberton
Big debate about two less than average paintings

arrogant words which only make the thread a bit longer.