PDA

View Full Version : Paris square or a sad shark


Olga
05-10-2003, 01:31 PM
Hi,
It's Place de la Contrescarpe--the blooming trees were incredible. Sad shark is the name of the restaurant on the corner...

I think I better post it to stop fiddling. The scene might have been too busy to begin with...

I think the trees are flat, too..any ideas how to make them have more body?

Thanks in advance for all critique, comments and suggestions.

Olga

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-May-2003/7629-Contrescarpe.jpg

W&N paints on 1/2 sheet, Arches 140lb rough.

artmom
05-10-2003, 01:43 PM
Olga, I like your style!

IMO, the man on the left (as we look at it) is out of proportion to the buildings--I THINK that is what keeps drawing my eye to him.
Also the buildings on the left-hand side of the street (near center of painting) or really the TOPS of the buildings, look a little too white to me.

Maybe some dark purple blossoms on the shadier side of the trees would help round them.

I may be all wrong, Olga, I've never done a street scene or people! LOL

Lyn

Annetta
05-10-2003, 01:44 PM
Olga, I think this is very nice!! :clap: :clap:The trees are lovely but as far as looking flat, would adding tiny little "darks" :p here and there help? The only other thing I noticed, might be the scan, but I would add a little more darks to the buildings where the sidewalk goes between the two buildings? I'm thinking the tall yellow building would cast a bit more of a shadow? This is strictly conjecture on my part and offered as "IMHO" only :D

....let's see what others think :cat:

andylavallee
05-10-2003, 01:50 PM
Hi Olga, Shadows!. I think the light source is right top corner shining in?. the bollards show a very light shadow on the low wall but the chap by the wall does not, neither do the other figures in a similar way I think the back part of the tree would be in shadow makingf it gain a rounder shape. hope this is ok. Having said all that it's a very well painted picture.

lyn lynch
05-10-2003, 02:41 PM
My imagination perhaps, but I think Olga is breaking out of a box w/this one.

I like the intent. The people are too large and too clearly defined; they should be much, much smaller in relationship to the buildings [likewise park posts] unless your intent is surrealism, and than they should be much larger than current.

For the tree, you need some paths of dark blue-violet, especially covering some of the tree trunk branches, which are too numerous. offshoot branches should be much lighter in value to recede.

But I like you going in the street scene direction. Was this an "out of head" or composite of several references?

Uschi
05-10-2003, 02:58 PM
I like it a lot Olga and I beg to differ re people being to large, considering they are closer to us than the buildings the size looks fine. Actually everything loos great, well except HA! HA! it looks as if it is 6 a.m. and only a few people are on their way to work. In Short, it looks a bit lonely to me, so MORE PEOPLE!!!?????
Uschi

Olga
05-10-2003, 03:11 PM
Thanks TN Lyn, Annetta, Andy and Fookie-Lyn

Some of your comments repeat, so I will answer jointly

I thought the people were the right size, but now I am beginning to doubt it. It's from a reference I posted in the ref lib. Here (http://www.wetcanvas.com/RefLib/showphoto.php?photo=14475&papass=&sort=1) followed it pretty closely--only removed a few people.

The white tops of buildings are not that white in the original--there is a pale yellow wash over them that the scan does not pick up. Might do another wash like that... Not sure--Paris is fairly white.

Thanks for the tips with the trees and shadows. Deeper shadows might indeed be needed on that street and in the trees.

Fookie-Lyn: when my sister was small she asked once whether a chicken can "de-hatch" if it wants to go back into the egg...I think it's more likely I am "de-hatching" than that I am breaking out of a box... lol

Uschi--yup, I took some people out... You are right.

Thank you all for looking and commenting

Olga

Olga

pampe
05-10-2003, 03:26 PM
charming...and some great advice given....

check your values on the trees...think that is the problem

lyn lynch
05-10-2003, 03:42 PM
Na-ah, people wrong [pay no attention to Uschi, she on drugs today affecting her perspective].

This is even more apparent in viewing the original, which is a very nice comp, Olga. By taking out some of the people, for example, the left youngster in the old man's postion and size is MUCH closer to the curb than the old man in his size really was. Ditto boy heading toward avenue is closer to the curb than IRL so should be smaller [check height of bldg. awning], Cafe too, is not on the same plane as bldg. across the street. Perhaps cool recession on the bottom of the bldgs. would help w/the scale, to push them back and give the appearance of the figures being closer to the viewer. I do not get the 2 dimensional feel from this work, it all seems on the same plane. I see that in your original the lilac trees are very high key and you did not do that in your adaptation, that's why you need darks and less prominance on your branches. That said, I don't know how to make a landscape. LOL.

Uschi
05-10-2003, 03:47 PM
HAHA! Patting myself on the back!!!

Lovely photos Olga, hadn't seen them before.
Uschi

PS:
"That woman" snuck in here before I finished typing and yes, I am on drugs, VIOXX HA! but NOT making me wooozy like Doug.

Yorky
05-10-2003, 05:18 PM
The overall effect is lovely, Olga, but I am sorry to say the perspective on the ground floor of the left hand side of the street is off. If you check the reference photo, the top of the windows etc should be heading upwards, so that the horizon line which goes through everyone's head is the correct height on the doorways.

This is what makes the painting look a little "off". If this could be corrected, then the figures would look OK for scale.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-May-2003/1046-OlgasParisDSE.jpg

Hope this helps.

Doug

Olga
05-10-2003, 05:38 PM
Doug,
YES IT HELPS!!!
You are right about the perspective being wrong...I had a horizon line way above the heads of the people!!! :rolleyes: All the lines meet at the horizon like they should.... but the horizon is too high. It' not just the ground floor that's wrong-- EVERY bit of it is wrong. No way to fix that... except to do it again. Not sure I have the patience.
Good lesson, though


THANKS!!!

Olga

Yorky
05-10-2003, 05:45 PM
I honestly don't think its that bad, Olga, I think you could fool the eye by altering the top of the red brickwork, so that it slopes down. Use a little artistic licence and add a band of decorative brickwork or an extended shop sign or whatever.

Thats all it needs.

Doug

CharM
05-10-2003, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by Yorky
I honestly don't think its that bad, Olga, I think you could fool the eye by altering the top of the red brickwork, so that it slopes down. Use a little artistic licence and add a band of decorative brickwork or an extended shop sign or whatever.

Thats all it needs.

Doug

Well, Doug's back might be out of commission, but his eyes sure aren't!!!

Olga... EVERY bit is not wrong... as Doug suggested, use your artistic licence to change the brickwork!!! I'm certain that this was a lot of work and you have a lovely painting, regardless of a few small nits...

Olga
05-10-2003, 06:07 PM
Doug... I did the perspective thing on the painting. It's all consistent but the horizon line is very high. Makes the people appear too large.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-May-2003/7629-Contrescarpe_perspective_copy.jpg

See?

I then did it on the photo... and got something weird....

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-May-2003/7629-Place_de_Contrescarpe2persp.jpg

The lines that should meet at one point on the horizon (which I also marked and which is also high), don't do so!
And now, I don't know what is going on. It could be the effect of trying to get the verticals right on the photo...

Thanks for your help!

Olga (in a confused state)

Yorky
05-10-2003, 06:29 PM
Olga, there can be more than one vanishing point for different planes in the photograph. Also although the rule of thumb is that the heads of all people intersect the horizon, some people can be shorter or taller and vary a little. Slopring ground can also cause distortions. Try this site for perpective help. http://www2.evansville.edu/studiochalkboard/draw.html

Here's another try at drawing perspective lines.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-May-2003/1046-OlgasParis2DSE.jpg

Doug

Olga
05-10-2003, 07:00 PM
Doug,

I know there can be more than one vanishing point for different planes...but here it's the same plane (wall of a house!)... however, I think, with you help, I figured it out: that street goes uphill!!! I didn't notice that until you suggested the possibility

When I drew this, I figured the vanishing point by the intersection of the line at ground level and the line under to roof...and got the rest of the lines from there--without taking the slope of the street into account. And once I got the wrong horizon... everything else got funny.
It's been a good learning experience. :) Now I might actually do that painting again--just to get THAT right lol

Char--thanks! I did not see your comment until now.

Olga

mustcreate
05-10-2003, 07:07 PM
Olga, I love the colours and feel of this Paris scene.

I think some darks in the trees (as Pam mentioned would help)

also, the aerial perspective of the receding street might be helped by darkening that last building (the gray/green one).

With your conflicting results with the photo perspective lines - camera lens's typically distort buildings. Personally, in my paintings, I keep the distortion to some extent because I enjoy the drama it adds when looking up at a building.

em