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jackiesimmonds
05-06-2003, 01:15 PM
I wonder if any of you who sell your pastels have had this kind of fredback.

I was asked to show a woman two of my ballet images - they were both of her daughter. They were big pics, in large, expensive frames, and I quoted her 500. The gallery price, if I had been showing through my local gallery, would have been about 700. She said she would think about it.

She didn't bother to call me over the weekend, (despite saying she would), and then I bumped into her in the street. She said the usual "oh, I had meant to call you", and then went on to say that she did not want to spend "that much money on something which isn't an oil painting".

It does make me cross that oils command more respect, and money, than any other medium. The darn things darken, pastel doesn't. Pastel is pure pigment. Oils clearly have a better press agent.

If the woman had said "I am not sure I like the picture", I could have coped with that. But that isn't what she said. After the comment about it not being an oil, so not worth the money, she said that if I still had the picture at the end of the show, and it was unsold, she would like to have it .......provided I reduced the price. This irritates me. Am I being unreasonable? Are pastels really a poor relation? What do you think?

Jackie

pampe
05-06-2003, 01:19 PM
You know, Jackie...we watercolorists get that same response.....so how dumb of me to add pastels as my second medium, huh?


Well...all we can do is continue to make quality work and someday it may change

I always refer to Degas for pastel and Sargeant for watercolor to people like that...:rolleyes:

meowmeow
05-06-2003, 01:25 PM
if I still had the picture at the end of the show, and it was unsold, she would like to have it .......provided I reduced the price

Seems to me if she likes it, she likes it...how it was done should not matter.
I suppose oils take long to do...but that's mostly because you have to wait for them to dry in between. Does it require more ability? I doubt it.
And frankly watercolors are among the hardest to learn to be good with. It makes no sense.
I don't blame you for being annoyed.
I hope it gets sold to someone else...so she can feel foolish for letting someone else buy a lovely painting of her daughter!
Try not to let them get you down!

Sandy

Rick R
05-06-2003, 01:32 PM
I can imagine that oil paintings had less respect when they first appeared. Everyone wanted... what was it, tempera?

Ignore all (art) heathens! :p

- Rick

soap
05-06-2003, 01:37 PM
WHOAAA how horrible - we obviously have some education to do here.....!! Maybe attach some info to every painting? Every exhibition.....every website....?

Andrew
05-06-2003, 01:44 PM
I think it has less to do with a better press agent, and more to do with preconceived notions. People see oils as this durable, traditional medium, that is laborious to work with, and years to master.

Even caseins, tempras and alkyds, which chemically pre-date oils and are just as durable (if not more so), get the same cold shoulder. Oils won out in the good old days because they offered a wider array of pigments, were far less tedious in applications, and remained workable for days.

Just ignore this philistine, and go about your business.

Andrew

BTDogMom
05-06-2003, 01:45 PM
Jackie - that shows u her ingnorance - pastel r just as, if not more beautiful than oil - I wish I would have been there with you, I would have loved 2 tell her, that it's fine if you don't want 2 purchase these, however for future reference when u look at a piece of art, just know that oil has absolutely no more value than pastel. Then proceed 2 ask her if she's ever heard of Degas? I am amazed of the ignorance & stupidity of some people - and they r so ignorant that they r not even embarrassed when they make such ridiculous remarks.

Don't u dare lower the price and in fact tell her that u sold it 4 $800.00 LOL!!! LMAO

Artaholic
05-06-2003, 01:56 PM
Wow ! What nerve ! I agree that people are not educated on pastels , when I say I have pastel paintings they say you mean chalk?? I presume they mean the blackboard kind. I guess that we need to educate them on this medium.

She was probably looking for a good deal. Maybe a cheapskate??

Gerry

Kathryn Wilson
05-06-2003, 02:08 PM
Yes, Jackie, I have also encountered this reaction when I talk about using pastels. I guess it is a matter of education of the public whenever we can. I have also encountered people who have some information, but the wrong kind. "Oh, don't they self-destruct?" "Too hard to frame." Etc., etc. I have also encountered galleries who won't represent pastelists - how sad is that?

Your so-called buyer is looking for a bargain and insulting your work in the end. I would rather have a buyer who is proud of owning my work, than someone who gloats to their friends about the "bargain" they got. Stick to your guns.

angeline
05-06-2003, 06:46 PM
Oh this saddens me to read.
Jackie your work is exsquisite(dunno if i got the right spelling there!).
I too am finding that when people see my art they ask what it was done in and think they are chalks.....I try to explain they are pure pigment and will last better than any other medium.
If only that silly woman knew just how much expertise goes into your paintings.....how you make the skirts look so fine such delicate work.
Take no heed if i could afford it I would buy one!

Doogun
05-06-2003, 09:43 PM
Jackie,
If she comes around again tell her she is in the wrong section... oils are down the hall!!
You might think about creating some kind of brochure about pastels, the history, artists who worked in the medium, etc. This could be similar to your greeting card packets that you take to shows.
I would eat'em before I sold them to that "HAG".
Larry

marilyn h
05-06-2003, 09:47 PM
I think I would just have to put them in the Gallery and not have them available for her for a cheaper price. Let them deal with the Gallery on this one. She is, obviously, nieve about mediums. I have always thought that pastels were up there with oils. My 2 cents of american currency!!

Katherine J
05-07-2003, 12:20 AM
I'm with everyone else on this one, Jackie. You are right, the ignoramus is wrong! And don't you dare lower your pirce! I hope more than anything you'll sell it to someone else who can really appreciate the value of your craftsmanship and medium. Wouldn't that be her comeupance!

Katherine

artbabe21
05-07-2003, 02:54 AM
This IS sad Jackie, your talent is what she is purchasing...it goes to show how uneducated people are about art mediums in general......IDIOT WOMAN to say such a thing, I can't imagine...well maybe...:(

Oils don't even HAVE to take more time & certainly no more talent...an alla prima oil {all in one sitting}can be produced rather quickly and then they would certainly think they were ripped off!

jackiesimmonds
05-07-2003, 03:32 AM
thanks for all your support, people.

I tried hard not to let this get under my skin, but it has, and so I have decided on this:

I am going to write to the old bat and tell her all about Degas, (and I might even suggest that she finds out a little more about the work of an artist before she makes somewhat insulting remarks) and
I am not going to sell her either picture unless she pays full price. I will send her my CV, to show her my track record, and I will put her in touch with the gallery which represented me for years, and she can check my prices with them. Because she found me at the ballet school, I think perhaps she thinks I am an upstart nobody who is ripping HER off with high prices! My CV should put a stop to THAT thought.

Even if the pics are available still at the end of my week in Mayfair, I am not going to offer them to her. I will put them out to other galleries, and will tell her they are sold. It won't change my life if I sell to her, but it will gall me to sell to her at a cheaper price.

There. Got it sorted now. Am off to write that letter.


Jackie

CoolArtiste
05-07-2003, 05:18 AM
Jackie, I just looked at your web page gallery. I think you do excellent work. You have great artistry. Your pastel paintings are full of light and liveliness. I thought your landscape and venice carnival paintings were your best. I thought most of the ballet paintings could've been better though. Did you study anatomy?
If not, I think it would help.

E-J
05-07-2003, 07:00 AM
Jackie, it might have been enlightening to pin this woman down on why precisely she feels an oil painting is worth more of her money than one of your beautiful pastels. Snob value, I would guess: she simply wants to be able to boast, as friends admire the painting on her wall, that it's an original oil. The old masters that even people like this woman have heard of used oil, so it must be an indication that it's 'real' art, right? This ignorant woman clearly has no other knowledge to base her judgements on.

One of the joys of applying pastel to paper is its relative spontaneity compared to wet media like oils, but no matter how long a piece has taken you to complete, be it hours, days or weeks, also contained within it are all the years that you have spent studying and making art. Good on you for deciding NOT to sell to this woman at a reduced price. It would be an insult to you and your work.

CoolArtiste, your remark to Jackie comes across as pretty rude.

JamieWG
05-07-2003, 08:07 AM
Jackie, I've come across this kind of ignorant bias too. Most of my work is in oils.....but so many artists talk about this issue. I think acrylic painters have it the worst, because it is looked upon by the general population as a student substitute for oils, rather than its own brilliant medium with different handling capabilities. Colored pencil has an even longer road to travel to find equal status. Pastel has been around for so long, and for that reason it is surprising that the bias is still there in many places. Very unfortunate indeed. I'm sorry I don't have any advice to offer...but I can commiserate. :crying:

Jamie

meowmeow
05-07-2003, 08:43 AM
I think your letter is an excellent idea Jackie! Well done!

As a "footnote"...in this morning's paper is an article about 2 Degas pastels which just sold at Sotheby's; one for $10.6 million and the other a mere $3.9 million. :D

http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/127/living/Two_Degas_and_a_Renoir_net_16_2m+.shtml

And I think your ballet paintings are wonderful!

Cool Artiste, you should do a bit more research on your "subject" before you make such uncool comments. Jackie has indeed "studied" art and I am sure anatomy and has taught for many years.


Sandy

doe
05-07-2003, 09:32 AM
Yes, sadly people do still think of pastels as sketches rather than paintings. Good for you for writing her the letter, it might help to educate her!

crumbedbrains
05-07-2003, 10:41 AM
OK here's my 2 cent spin on this. Slightly different view. I don't normally write this much!!

I think there's a biased view here in that we, as members of this forum, are neither uneducated nor ill-advised as to the durability of pastel and the level of skill required in comparison to the other media. A given.

However, as Andrew stated, there are preconcieved notions out there (albeit mis-informed) that the Grand Masters preferred medium of choice was oils. However, I disagree with the notion that we should ignore this or other like-minded potential buyers.

Seems to me this person has not bought much, if any, art before. It realy doesn't matter where or how that buyer came to the views she had . . . . fact is she had them. . . I can't see how can we blame someone for not buying something that they don't feel comfortable with . . fact of the matter is WE WOULD DO EXACTLY THE SAME THING if we were buying a common brand of car that Dad used to have versus something we'd never heard of before . . would we not??

So what needs to happen here is a degree of education . . and I don't mean education of our buyers . . I mean US. We need to become more attuned to the fears and risks our buyers perceive in purchasing pastels and devise selling strategies to overcome these elements of risk they feel as they purchase our work. I say this from experience in that a couple of years ago, when I first took up painting, I toyed with the idea of changing mediums for similar reasons but my gallery expressed a strong view that it was what separated me from the others they were selling. They KNEW about pastels and had a selling strategy that made my work stand apart from others BECAUSE were pastels . . not DESPITE they were pastels. Admittedly they were good at what they did in that no matter what painting a potential buyer showed interest in, they were able to make that painting, for some other reason, also stand out from the crowd.

I've just finished an exhibition where my prices were double to triple everyone else's . . I couldn't believe how people undervalue their work. . . my work was no better . . . but I think it was perceived to be as I got more enquiries about my work than others due to the fact they thought they were buying something particularly special. Remember the old addage . . PERCEPTION IS REALITY.

So although I agree the general public could do with a dose of Pastel 101, the fact of the matter is they don't . . and you can't expect people to . . . . how many of us are experts in cars? . . but when you go to a showroom the salesman talks as though you naturally knew the difference between his, and his competitors, engine components

I think it's a great idea to have supportive information about the medium of pastel at hand so that potential buyers can make an informed choice and not one of an uncomfortable gamble. And I'm sure your CV is most impressive Jackie. I guess the question is why was that not available at the time??

It doesn't sound like it I know . . but trust me, these are supportive words Jackie . . . although the immediate reaction is to go out and get a win in this instance by writing CV's and letters . . . it won't prevent it happening to the next mal-informed buyer that comes along . . . . Better to put your efforts into literature that can be used as, and when, you're selling your work in future . . . not as a reaction after the buyers decision has already been made as it seems to be in this instance.

I say not only hold your prices . . but raise them . . . make them feel they are buying something unique and special in your work (which they are) . . and that you yourself value it in that way.

Best of luck
Crumby

zilloot
05-07-2003, 11:54 AM
The woman is a sample of the sadness of being short-sighted. I hear of more and more artists picking up pastels because they are so beautiful.

(Don't let her in to the show - she doesn't deserve to be in the presence of real art.)

JohnnyRed
05-07-2003, 12:05 PM
It has been a long time since I've been in here, but I just had to comment on this.

I understand how that woman felt. I too felt that oil painting was 'real painting'. I have since discovered, to my very great pleasure, that ANY medium placed on a support is 'real painting'.

When I try to sell my pastels, I always express the longevity of pastel. Oils need varnish, and varnish darkens and cracks. Watercolour can 'fox'. Look to cave paintings, surely the very earliest of 'pastel painting'. I too refer to Degas' paintings, and I stress that pastels will just as fresh in 300 years as they are the day they were painted. Perfect as heirloms!

It is very difficult to fight pre-conceived predjudice.

Go on Jackie, tell it how it is and bite the bullet - it's better than your lip! If you upset these so-called self-styled 'experts' then that is THEIR problem, not yours!

Snobbery has no place in art in my opinion.

Sorry it's so long, but this hit a very raw nerve with me!!

oramasha
05-07-2003, 12:14 PM
I can understand and forgive ignorance. However, her last statement did sound rude and disrespectful. Obviously, she is not the right owner. The right owner would love your painting for what it is, without comparisons, without conditions, and would be respectful to you and your painting.

I think you've already taken away something positive from this experience.

pampe
05-07-2003, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by crumbedbrains


So what needs to happen here is a degree of education . . and I don't mean education of our buyers . . I mean US. We need to become more attuned to the fears and risks our buyers perceive in purchasing pastels and devise selling strategies to overcome these elements of risk they feel as they purchase our work.

I think this is well put and absolutely correct......primary rule of selling...."OVERCOME OBJECTIONS"


Also......"SELL BENEFITS"

Originally posted by crumbedbrains



I've just finished an exhibition where my prices were double to triple everyone else's . . I couldn't believe how people undervalue their work. . . my work was no better . . . but I think it was perceived to be as I got more enquiries about my work than others due to the fact they thought they were buying something particularly special. Remember the old addage . . PERCEPTION IS REALITY.

Amen


Originally posted by crumbedbrains



I say not only hold your prices . . but raise them . . . make them feel they are buying something unique and special in your work (which they are) . . and that you yourself value it in that way.



Boy...I wish I were brave enough to do this.....I am at a stage where I know my watercolors are underpriced but I am scared to death to raise them...for fear of costs exceeding revenue (I sell primarily on EBAY)

Pam

jackiesimmonds
05-07-2003, 12:28 PM
What an interesting set of responses.

Crumby..........you are absolutely spot on, and I should have made sure that my pictures had my CV firmly attached to the back, so that the buyer could make the choice based on a little more than just "do I like it, do I want it" if she felt the need. I must admit I haven't done this to date, because I usually find that my pieces sell because the buyer quite simply likes and wants to buy, so therefore my track record is just not important to most of my buyers - they aren't looking for "investment value".

However, it would probably save a lot of the necessary, or unnecessary, "explanations" if I did so, so I will from now on

As for education about pastels..... I did, in fact, go to great lengths to explain pastels verbally to this woman, but it clearly went in one ear and out the other, so having something written would probably not have made any difference, and in fact, I suspect it would have looked, to her, as though I was trying to justify my use of that medium. Clearly, I am not as good at sales as your gallery!

CoolArtiste - As you are new to WC, I think you should know that by and large, if people ASK for advice or help or comments about their work, then it is appropriate to give it. If they don't ask, then comments such as yours could offend. (I am not saying that I am necessarily offended - but I might be, and others might be too if you do it to them.) It took me a while to learn this, when I first started posting I too was a bit too forthright, but one lives and learns!!

I have had people comment unfavourably on my figure-drawing skills, but my answer then, as it is now, is that yes, I did study anatomy, to the limited degree one does at art school, and yes, it is not my strongest area, and it is quite possible that there are anatomically incorrect sections in my figures.......BUT these paintings are not figure studies, they are atmospheric images, which make some attempt to capture certain aspects of the whole business of being a dancer. They are about the grace and elegance of some dancers; the attitude and feistiness of others; the nervousness and anticipation pre-performance; the delightful frothiness of some ballet costumes - in fact, a whole raft of somewhat intangible elements which matter far more to me than anatomical correctness. Since I have sold quite a few of these images before the show even opens, clearly any anatomical faults have not been a bother to those people wanting to buy my work. Their comments have been things like "I just love that little dancer.....I can imagine just how she feels" and "wow, these pictures take me right back to my days of trying to be a dancer" and "I really love the light and atmosphere in that picture". I know there is room for improvement in my work..............and I hope that will always be the case, because when I start to feel that I can "do it" and I know it all, then there will be nothing left to work towards.

If you want to contribute to WC without seeming to be rude, then it is best to do it with a little more tact.

Thanks to you Jamie, EJ, Meow, Doe, Oramasha, Pampe, JR and Zilloot. Up we artists!!!

Jackie

Dark_Shades
05-07-2003, 01:40 PM
my tuppence worth :D .... I agree with Crumby ..... as I mentioned in another thread about education and in selling ......

It was only relatively some years ago that I had really heard of pastels, and of the way we use them today ..... my own sister (who knows nothing about art) on seeing my work says, very nice, but they would be much nicer in oils!!!

Oils are and always will be the Bee's Knees!! - I would say for the best part, the British public have never heard of pastels or if they do, have the wrong idea of what they are .... they know watercolours...... and oils, so if only on that basis, they would be shocked at prices which more reflect oils in their opinions - in addition to that, alot of people dont like to have paintings behind glass and want to be able to view and touch works ...... again I think this endorses the thoughts that they are not as good as oils........ Pastels down fall !!

I had been told in WC on a number of occassions to price pastel works as watercolours.

Personally I dont think your potential customer was after a cheap deal, just probably shocked and being something like one of the 95% of the British Public as mentioned above

... so I think its down to us to educate and promote Pastels, include leaflets when selling (even on ebay), notices on your websites

Yup ..... Pastels, the Poor Relation

jackiesimmonds
05-07-2003, 02:47 PM
Dark Shades - have to agree with everything you said about the UK buying public in particular, except that I think this woman DID want something cheapER actually, because the conversation was all about money. However I also think she is probably someone who would have preferred to have something which was less impressionistic and atmospheric, and far more detailed. I think she would have valued that more highly. She also did not, as Crumby pointed out in a way, see my work on a gallery wall alongside lots of other pieces, nor did she know anything about my track record, which might have helped her to feel more confident about her purchase - she met me thro the ballet school where I was sketching, and probably thought I was nothing more than a hobby painter, who was taking huge liberties with prices.

Ah well - Pastels the poor relation, I think we are all agreed on that, and as for my painting non-sale- well, on reflection I think I probably made a mistake to take the painting to her home without doing a selling job on myself and my work at the same time. I should not make assumptions about other people's knowledge and understanding of the world of art. In fact, it might be best to assume lack of knowledge on the part of all buyers.

We live and learn, as I said before!!

Jackie

Dark_Shades
05-07-2003, 03:27 PM
Ohh well, you know the situation better..... what a shame she was a cheap skate then :(

... perhaps you should happen upon your person at all times... your videos, books.... and magazines...... and just happen to let them drop out for customers to have to pick them up :D

..... actually thinking on that...... do you have those on display at your exhibitions?

... think that is a good idea..... to presume the public know less.... and then get a nice suprise if they know more

Brooke
05-07-2003, 03:40 PM
Jackie, you don't need this lady and the stress she obviously put on you. You are too well-respected and talented for that type of person. Even if she did pay full price after all this, how would you feel knowing that your beautiful art was hanging in her home where beauty is judged merely by price?

Sorry, but I've got to interject a note to CoolArtiste. I agree with Jackie's and other's comments that you must be careful how and where you offer unsolicited advice. We have at least two forums where people are asking for advice and, of course, its is appropriate there. Sometimes in postings WC family members will ask for advice.
But since you brought the subject up, I have looked at your web site and can only say that you do have a degree of talent that you really should continue to work with and grow. You certainly have enthusiasm. I believe that eventually you may do some very nice work. I do not think you have mastered anatomy yet yourself. You need work on muscles, attachments, the effect of structures under the skin and how they move with tension, relaxation and twisting. I don't think you will get this from just copying old masters, as great as they are, nor copying photos. You need a good anatomy book as a reference which you will tote regularly to a series of life drawing classes so you can see exactly which muscle is working in the model. I hope I haven't offended you because that is certainly not my intention. I really want to encourage you.

flower
05-07-2003, 05:58 PM
Hi everyone,

Just wanted to say that i am so sorry that something like this could happen because of snobbery.

I experienced that yesterday with my watercolour group, we were painting outside at my camping place, i decided to do 2 small boats that were on the lake and wanted to do them for the daily wash, i finished in 40 minutes, and got some ooohs and aaaghs from 2 of the ladies and all i got from the rest was, oh watercolours are so much harder to do, oh shell be turning them off like a machine, you must have started that before you came here, etc etc. i could have blown up i felt really 2nd grade because id done something in pastells and not in watercolour.

help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

angecald
05-08-2003, 12:41 AM
Jackie, this has been a very interesting thread. For myself, nothing makes me see red faster than someone suggesting my work is overvalued. I feel like printing up an itemized list of the money I've spent producing a picture for sale. Usually the price these cheapskates have in mind wouldn't cover the cost of the frame. You are a real pro with a proven track record in sales, and it's appalling that you have to endure such slurs. It's true the person in question is probably ignorant - that's the best that can be said of her. What I would tell her, if she asks again, is that she was offered a discount price because of her relationship with the model, and since she turned it down she must now deal with the gallery and pay what your other collectors pay.

To CoolArtiste I have this to say. Just because Jackie's ballet paintings show some weakness in anatomy doesn't mean they aren't worth what she is charging for them. All the correct anatomy in the world won't sell a painting if that's all it's got. Jackie's prices are quite modest and her works would be a bargain at twice the price.

artbabe21
05-08-2003, 12:55 AM
This is such a dicey area...I almost think there should be something in the FAQ about this. I have learned to be very cautious where people's feelings are concerned...sometimes people only want to share and do not want their work critiqued, unless as Jackie said they place it in that appropriate forum. In this case it wasn't solicited at all...nor was it polite.

I remember when I was new to WC, critiquing a piece and saying this or that according to MY view point...well I realized this is their painting and they probably like it that way so I try to be very careful since art is so subjective...:D That said I also get tired of ouus & ahhs all the time but hey, we can all use a little confidence building{not meant for you Jackie} just as a general rule. Sometimes I will say, if it were mine I might try such & such but perhaps you like it as it is.

So that said consider feelings before you speak your mind & watch how it's said...that's my story and I'm stickin' to it!

jackiesimmonds
05-08-2003, 03:24 AM
Quick reply for Dark Shades...........yes, I do take examples of my books and videos and put them out at my exhibition. I also prepared yesterday, with Crumby's advice in mind, a sheet explaining quite a bit about pastels, emphasising their good points, which I will put out in a smart perspex display holder, alongside another display holder with my CV in it!! I do think about publicity of this kind, usually - it was only this particular instance, where I was asked to visit someone's home, whch is a bit unusual for me, that I didn't have it all to hand.

However - I had someone come to MY home the previous week, and they bought THREE of my biggest and best pieces. They did not ask to see my CV, and did not ask what medium I had used......they simply fell in love with several pictures and bought them without batting an eyelid about the price and without needing to ask a word about anything. They simply trusted me, and were comfortable with their choice. It had nothing to do with my track record, pastel's longevity, or anything.

I suppose, because I do not run a gallery, I do not normally have to deal with my buyers direct, and when I have done, it has been in this way - no questions asked. I have never had to cope with anti-pastel comments before, which is perhaps unusual for someone who has been working with the stuff for so many years! I guess I kind of knew it was out there - I have heard other artists comment that some galleries don't like pastels, but I suppose I dismissed this as ridiculous because it was so outside of my personal exeriences. Call me naive, maybe, I just thought it was a rogue gallery owner who was ignorant, or who, perhaps, had had a bad experience with a shedding pastel or two. Perhaps there is, as you suggest in your original post, DS, more prejudice against pastels than I had thought.

FLOWER - you have to ignore those soppy people. What do they know about pastels. You should laugh, and say, yes, they are MUCH easier than watercolours, aren't I lucky to have brought them along! And then let them sneak away jealously and secretly buy some pastels to try for themselves, and they will discover that actually, it is just as easy to make a mess with pastels as it is to make a mess with watercolours, and they will learn a bit of respect for you and what you do with them. DLTBGYD!!!

Jackie

flower
05-09-2003, 04:15 PM
Hi Jackie,

Thanks for these words of wisdom, i have decided to do this pic again in watercolour to show them that i can do it in this medium too , dont know what the letters meant at the end LOL,

Craig Houghton
05-09-2003, 04:18 PM
this is just a guess, but i think it's don't let those explicatives get you down - and damned straight - that's good advice :P

-Craig

flower
05-09-2003, 04:22 PM
Hi Craig,

Thanks for the info, and yes i mean in UK i come from Stockport although im now living in Germany LOL

rd2ruin
05-09-2003, 05:04 PM
Hello, everyone!

It's been forever and a year since I've been 'round. Have all sorts of other excitment going on and haven't had anything to share, but let's hope that changes soon :)

When I looked at the ballet paintings, I saw some anatomical inacurracies, and so what? I understood the composition wasn't about the human form. The same way Renior's figures aren't correct. The same way Van Gogh's, Picasso's, Gaughin's figures weren't perfect. If you really want to see some nice anatomy, take an anatomy class LOL!

I'd say, in this particular instance, the fact that you (I'm guessing) may be trying to market your works toward an audience that can appreciate a work of art as opposed to a nice drawing would make you feel better that you _didn't_ sell this peice to her.

In the end, dont we all really just want a buyer that will really appreciate the work? (other than the money, of course LOL).

So consider this a victory. Someday, you're ballerina is going to find a nice home somewhere she's displayed and really loved, instead of somewhere where the topic of conversation about it will be just that ... about it ... and not about the deal the buyer got.

Now, with all that aside. For her to comment about it being a pastel, we have to remember that pastels (relatively speaking) are still youngins' as far as mediums go. (sure, they were around before the 20th century, but not really). It's not the public's fault that oils are preferred. And it's not our fault. It's just the way it is. At least she was honest, and it has in the end, enlightened us by acknowledging that we have to make an effort to educate ourselves and the buying public about pastels to remove this stigma of a 'lessor' medium. As long as we keep promoting pastels maybe we can change that someday. Best way to do that is to not buckle under and admit it's an inferior work by lowering prices and producing, well, nice paintings. :D

Cheers!
- Greg

Dyin
05-09-2003, 07:30 PM
Boy, I thought soft pastels were received well, I've noticed that the oil pastels aren't allowed in some of the pastel contests...miffs me a bit, but I'll show 'em is my attitude. I would offer to sell her the painting for more, not less...tell her you save your better prices for good customers with informed tastes....The instructions for the ignorant are built in...just 'ignore' them, it's not like she wanted to learn. I think she was just trying to get a deal, and some people try to make themselves brighter by dimming someone else's candle...take what you need and ignore the rest.

Mo.
05-09-2003, 07:42 PM
Well most of what I wanted to say has already been said, so I'll just add here... next time offer her some pastels mixed up with an egg. :D Up to you what you then do with it. :D :evil: :D..

However I wonder if she knows that, that is what was used before oils?