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karenjh
05-03-2003, 03:24 PM
I really want to try to get the hang of flowers so I did this painting again. I am not really concerned with the composition as I really did this to practice the different types of roses. Both are 11" x 15" Arches Cold Press.

Did I do better the second time? What can I do to improve? I need some serious help with leaves, but I think the flowers are better.

1st Attempt
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-May-2003/8699-Roses_with_Butterfly_Final.jpg

2nd Attempt
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-May-2003/8699-Pink_Roses_Final_2_small.jpg

babybrush
05-03-2003, 03:25 PM
definately better. i like that background so much!!

Bethany

artmom
05-03-2003, 08:26 PM
I'm not going to be much help, because I like both attempts.

However, both images on my monitor are rather dark and it takes away from the freshness. The roses and the dragonfly seem, heavy, no transcluscent quality, but beautifuly rendered. I don't see anything wrong with your leaves in the first attempt. The darkness just seems to overhang both paintings, so I may be full of hot air if it is my monitor! LOL

Lyn

lyn lynch
05-03-2003, 08:39 PM
Yes, not enough paper showing, i.e., value changes--light, medium, dark-in each petal. At least that is how I think of this work that you are showing. Each petal should be completed by itself and the reflective shadows hook it together. The butterfly too defined imo, should be very light, barely there. How about a site search for "Rose" and see what you get? Could be a wip hanging around. BTW, I will be painting a rose soon and you can critique mine. Deal?

karenjh
05-03-2003, 09:13 PM
Bethany, I can't decide which background I like better. I actually think the bottom one could be darker and the top one has too much salt effect going on.

Lyn, I think your monitor might need some brightness adjustment. The second painting is actually pretty light and doesn't have much in the way of darks....

That brings me to Fookie - you are correct that I don't have enough value changes in this painting. There certainly aren't enough darks in the painting. The first rose was just too dark and not transparent enough (imho), but the bottom one are probably compensated too much in the other direction. It is definitely transparent, but might not have enough darks in it. These are tough! Good idea on the butterfly, because I am not fond of the way it turned out either. In fact, hubby hates it LOL

hopefulbucky
05-03-2003, 10:42 PM
Karen, I really like the second background better as it is softer, picks up the colors but doesn't detract from the beautiful roses. It does show up dark on my monitor as well but it could be the scan, the photo or maybe that is how it is supposed to be.

I like the butterfly better on the second one, like the roses on both of them.

Great job!

CharM
05-04-2003, 12:32 AM
Your roses in both pictures are beautifully drawn and their colours are lovely... Don't be afraid to leave a little of your white paper as highlights.... I definitely like the second background better... I can't critique backgrounds, however, because I have such difficulty with them... I admire your desire to learn and to repaint something... You are improving!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Faafil
05-04-2003, 02:11 AM
I think #2 is better, much improved on the roses... but I like both ! :D I can't give a real critique, cuz I can't paint a decent rose yet.... hope I can achieve what you've done when I tackle them again....

:clap:

painterbear
05-04-2003, 07:20 AM
Your roses in the second painting are very nice and an improvement over the first attempt. You could use a little more dark color at the base of the central bowl where the outer petals separate from the inside part of the flower. You have some shadow there now, but IMO it could be darker.

I agree about the background of the second painting being less obtrusive than the first one.

The butterfly is nicely painted but he doesn't seem to really be part of the picture, he just seems to be tacked on.

Now that you've got the flower part working to your liking, you can tackle the stems and leaves to bring them up to match the quality of the flower and buds.

karenjh
05-04-2003, 10:36 AM
Hopeful, Char, Faafil and Painterbear - Thank you so much for your constructive comments - I really appreciate it.

Now that you've got the flower part working to your liking, you can tackle the stems and leaves to bring them up to match the quality of the flower and buds.

Definitely need some help there! Any suggestions out there or good learning sources on leaves?

pampe
05-04-2003, 12:27 PM
agree with all that's been said

about lights: whites would be nice....as would a sense of light source..I think that is why it looks the way it does......


about leaves: don;t make them so "leafy"!

painterbear
05-04-2003, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by karenjh


Definitely need some help there! Any suggestions out there or good learning sources on leaves?

Karen,

I think when you painted the roses, you really looked at your reference and was careful to paint the curves and twists and shapes you saw. It looks to me though, that when it came to painting the leaves and stems, you painted what you know or think a rose leaf or stem looks like instead of studying them as carefully as you did the rose. I may be wrong, but if you can paint a rose that realistically, I'll bet you can paint the leaves and stems just as realistically too if you concentrate on the shapes and curves, etc., instead of saying "I'm painting a leaf." Know what I mean? I think we all paint with our mind instead of our eyes at one time or another and then wonder why it doesn't look like we want it to.

karenjh
05-04-2003, 07:08 PM
Painterbear, Thank you! You are so right about the leaves! My reference photos (which I took at dusk) were great for the roses, but the leaves were just too dark for me to "see". Knowing that I should have gotten some rose leaf photos so I could have given myself half a chance to do a better job. I must say though because you said I could paint a rose "that realistically" makes me want to try it again! You have made my day!

Uschi
05-04-2003, 07:59 PM
Karen, the rose and buds are painted beautifully but I too would like to see some light in there. I think you answered your own dilemma, you said you took your reference photo at dusk, and that is exactly what it looks like, so you did a great job!!!!
On the other hand if you want it more lively, take the photo in the sun, harder, because you will have to deal with cast shadows, but you will automatically have lights and darks and a sparkle.

Re leaves - I agree completely with Painterbear
Uschi

karenjh
05-05-2003, 03:28 PM
Uschi,
Thanks for looking!

Is the light that you guys are talking about in the background?

I just printed out some of the other rose pics I took and I can see the leaves. I'll be taking another stab at this again, less the butterfly and trying to get a real composition going.