PDA

View Full Version : Repost Magnolia


Phyllis Rennie
05-14-2001, 10:03 PM
<IMG SRC="http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-May-2001/.JPGMagnoliarepost.JPG" border=0>

Was discussing this with Sandra so I'm putting it in again as it currently is. It's not a very good photo of it. What you cannot see is the crimsom and purples in the darks of the leaves. And the blues are a little stronger here than in reality.

I'm not really satisfied with it. It doesn't feel finished.

It's different than my usual work in a couple of aspects. One, it's larger than life--16" x 20". And I used cool lights/warm shadows which is the opposite of my usual approach. Don't know if that is what is bugging me or something else.

At the moment, I'm thinking of changing the background of the upper left to a warm dark--maybe some reds and purples similiar to what is in the dark portions of the leaves. Just not sure if I would like the strong contrast to the leaves in that area. I wanted them to receed.

And I'm going to try to "round off" the petal at the upper left. Don't know if I can--it might be too dry to scrape down--so I may just have to tone it down so the point is not so noticable.

Anyway, any suggestions will be appreciated and considered. Just don't say, "leave it alone". http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif I can't. Phyl

Fagan
05-14-2001, 10:13 PM
Personally I like it the way it is. This seems to be a moonlit view of the magnolia. I don't see where I would change anything. *SMILE*

------------------
Beverly
http://www.faganstudio.com

arteitaliana
05-14-2001, 10:28 PM
A little bit more contrast would not hurt.
Nice composition, lovely subject http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif

------------------
http://www.geocities.com:80/SoHo/Exhibit/1799/index.html

alva
05-15-2001, 01:26 PM
I agree with Rita, nice but could use more contrast, and some crisper edges in certain areas http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif

ZOTMA
05-15-2001, 02:42 PM
I think your instinct about warming it up a bit is good. I'm sorry the colors are a bit off (as you say, loss of the purple..etc.), seems like that might help the contrast. Great that you're trying stuff out of your usual zone.

dornberg
05-15-2001, 04:07 PM
very pretty color relation
the way the shape of the leaves relate to the edges of the canvas make it real interesting, very good

sandge
05-15-2001, 06:20 PM
Do you remember what you had in mind when you set out to make this painting - what inspired you/what were you aiming for?

Have your intentions changed during the painting of it?

Did you make any preparatory studies or did you jump right in?

best wishes http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif
sandra

------------------
http://www.fletcherfineart.com

Phyllis Rennie
05-15-2001, 08:12 PM
BEVERLY, I told you NOT TO SAY THAT!!!! Just kidding, I'm glad you like it but I have to change it. Years ago my teacher told me that every painting has 3 stages. The exciting beginning, the exciting finish, and the middle stage which is not exciting because you are dealing with problems. I feel like this one is STUCK in the middle stage and has been for several months now.

Rita and Alva, More contrast in values? in temperatures? in colors? in brushwork? any particular recommendation?

Alva, sharper edges I hadn't considered. Would you put them at the points of greatest interest?

Zotma, You're right--the loss of the reds and purples does diminish it. And it's showing here as too blue. Sorry, I took several photos in a variety of lighting situations and this one was the best.

Dornberg, Thanks--I tried to concentrate on the negative shapes that were created by the leaves. Glad you like that.

Sandra, I have a magnolia tree in my yard. I love the flowers but I am really impressed by those big, thick, shiny leaves. The blossoms only last one day on the tree and even less in a vase so I had to photograph it for reference even though I don't like painting from photos. I get much better results from life. I wanted to show the beauty of the leaves as well as the soft velvety flower.

My intentions did not change. But I had been reading a book by JoAnna Arnett in which she discusses painting with cool light and warm shadows. I had never thought about that or tried it so I thought I would try it in this painting. I was very happy with the results on the leaves but when I got to the blossom, I drifted into old habits and made my shadows cool. So I repainted the flower in an attempt to keep the lighting consistent.

Prep studies were several photographs, a couple of compositional sketches, some discussion in the Composition and Design Forum, and a value sketch. Arlene recommended some nice crops to the composition but I didn't use them because they didn't allow me to show how impressed I was with the leaves. And I did follow my value sketch quite closely.

Thanks guys for the help! Much appreciated.

alva
05-16-2001, 07:34 PM
Hi Phyllis, regarding Rita's and my comments, and your question, I personally think value contrast and hard vs. soft edge contrast would work well...you could select just a few places where one form overlaps another, and 'sharpen' the edge of the form 'in front'. Consider how Caravaggio, (or others of course) would bring his foreshortened limbs/hands forward by a contrast of value and edges... just a thought http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif

Cherie
05-16-2001, 08:31 PM
Phyllis, I love your colors and painterly style. I agree with Rita, it needs more contrast. I would suggest lightening the background.

------------------
Cherie

sandge
05-16-2001, 09:36 PM
Hi Phyl!
Thanks for the reply. I managed to find, I think, your original post in the composition forum. (http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/Forum16/HTML/000038.html) It looks like you did some thorough preparatory thinking and planning.

I would suggest you take another look at the leaf group at bottom left. You planned to make this your secondary area of interest and at the moment I feel this is not quite strong enough to pull the eye away from the flower and set up the necessary visual tension.

I agree with Rita and alva about the value contrasts. If you have an image editing package and can convert the photo of your painting to greyscale you should see that there are no truly dark tones in your painting - it is all quite light. If you can increase the value contrast of the greyscale image you should see that it makes quite a dramatic difference to the picture. I can post an example, if you would like.

I think that manipulating the values would be a great way to strenghten the secondary area. Also, magnolia leaves are a very dark green, with extremely bright highlights and very little in the way of midtones. So increasing the contrast would be truer to these beautiful leaves.

best wishes http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif
sandra

------------------
http://www.fletcherfineart.com

Phyllis Rennie
05-18-2001, 08:56 AM
Not done yet--but we are making progress! I say "we" because you all have been so helpful. And my camera likes this version better--less blue.

<IMG SRC="http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-May-2001/.JPGmagnoliaprogress.JPG" border=0>

sandge
05-19-2001, 12:07 AM
I like this version also. http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif

That leaf at bottom left is looking really shiny! Great job. I think it's given the painting a lift.

I do still feel you need some really dark darks, still, in the shadow parts of the leaves and maybe the background at top right. (Just MHO.)

best wishes
sandra

------------------
http://www.fletcherfineart.com

Rod
05-19-2001, 02:09 AM
Hey thats coming along nicely, like the changes you have made,
Rod.

------------------
Check out My Watercolour Cd-rom &lt;.....Rod's shameless plug (http://www.artistnation.com/members/paris/rodzart/cdrom/)
Rodzart from New Zealand (http://www.artistnation.com/members/paris/rodzart/)

Phyllis Rennie
05-19-2001, 09:38 PM
Thanks Sandra & Rod. I'm much happier with it than I was. The darks are there but they don't show in the photo--quite a bit of Alizran Crimson, alizran & thalo blue, and alizran & thalo green. In places they're almost black until you view it really close. But I can't get that in the photo so guess you will all have to come over to my house for coffee and check out the original.

Sandra, I think your accessment that I didn't put enough emphasis on the leaves in the lower left was on target. I was afraid of putting too much attention there and kept adding more emphasis on the blossom until it looked like it belonged in another painting. I've subdued it a bit--even though I took Alvas advise and sharpened the edge of some of the petals. That, along with bringing up the leaves and warming the background, seems to make everything look like it all belongs on the same canvas. I think it needs a few finishing touches but even if I quit now, I like it a lot better.

Thanks again to everyone for your advise. Phyl

cleo
05-19-2001, 10:52 PM
Originally posted by alva:
Hi Phyllis, regarding Rita's and my comments, and your question, I personally think value contrast and hard vs. soft edge contrast would work well...you could select just a few places where one form overlaps another, and 'sharpen' the edge of the form 'in front'. Consider how Caravaggio, (or others of course) would bring his foreshortened limbs/hands forward by a contrast of value and edges... just a thought http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif

These amoung many comments try or intend to
insert ones value/intention/interest/artistic
sence, in place of ones own . . . well MY
thoughts are also VALAID! Tend your own crop
and let the other fellow tend his/hers!

A little more attention and you have it!

cleo

alva
05-20-2001, 01:02 PM
I was just suggesting options Cleo, "a little more attention", as you said, helps, but specifically, what kind of attention? Also, isn't your saying "give it a little more attention", injecting your own sensabilities? Aren't you doing the same thing as me, just offering advice? Notice I prefaced, although it should be understood, my comments with "personally" and ended with "just a thought".

Phyllis Rennie
05-20-2001, 02:26 PM
Cleo, of course your thoughts are valid!

But I had been dealing with this particular painting for several months and was becoming increasingly frustrated. So I posted it a second time and asked for VERY SPECIFIC suggestions. And when they were made, I questioned further to clarify the suggestion in my mind. It's still my painting and always will be. I just needed some advise to see what I was missing. Phyl

sandge
05-21-2001, 12:44 AM
Originally posted by Phyllis Rennie:
But I can't get that in the photo so guess you will all have to come over to my house for coffee and check out the original.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/biggrin.gif



------------------
http://www.fletcherfineart.com