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View Full Version : Just Curious.....


Brelaina
04-29-2003, 01:01 AM
about what Wc'ers do when they see an artist that has posted a painting in the forum that is extremely similar to a painting done in an artist's instruction book - especially if they're showing it their own show.

Personally, I probably would never comment but I was just wondering what other people think and if this happens quite often.?

I'd be interested in your thoughts on this one - obsiously not wanting to step on anyone's toes:D

Bre

Bill J
04-29-2003, 01:35 AM
Brena it depend on what it is. If it's an orange and banana still life
that we have all done until we where sick of bananas thats one thing. If it's infringement like Surreals post (Copyright Infringment dated 4-27 ) {read this thread.}this is another thing!We are all TEEed about it. I have one of Surreals signed pictures hanging in one of my homes and I don't want to see copies.

Astur
04-29-2003, 01:38 AM
Hi:

Well, painting from instructional books is a very usual thing.. intructional books are just suposed to be for that!!! and I think that forum is basicaly for intruction , at least for a beginner as me :)

Then I don't feel that is a "wrong" thing.... another thing is if the painter claims the painting is from him/her, and don't say anything about the original source...

See you

artmom
04-29-2003, 02:19 AM
I see no problem with posting a painting done from an instruction book, or someone's demo, etc., as long as it labeled as such. That is the only art "lessons" some have had.

Lyn

manwat
04-29-2003, 02:38 AM
I agree with Lyn. Instructional books and videos are sold specifically to encourage people to have a go; step by step guidance and detailed written text is a Godsend when you have nothing else to go by. I've only been painting a short while and during that time I must have read every "how to" book and seen every "how to" video our library has to offer. I have tried a lot of the exercises and demonstrations in the books [most of them have ended in the bin] but those I have posted on this forum I have credited, having said that on most of them you'd be hard pushed to notice any similarity between the "demonstration" and my efforts......:D

Yorky
04-29-2003, 06:49 AM
Can't see a problem so long as it is attributed as a copy and is not intended for sale. I recently posted a copy of Fletcher-Watson's "Ponte Vecchio".

Even Turner produced copies in watercolour of other artists oils.

Surely copying works you admire is a good way to learn about painting?

Doug

KansasLady
04-29-2003, 08:07 AM
I think that's how we learn. A lot of MY learning comes from instructional books, anyway. However, it should be accompanied by an acknowledgment of the original artist.

Didn't the artists in previous times learn by copying the Masters?

Now if one was planning to sell their copied work, that would be a wrong decision.

tessp
04-29-2003, 08:23 AM
If I'm going to try to make helpful comments, I feel I *need* to know what the source of the image is.

In the big picture of an artist's development, it does matter whether a lovely flower painting was done from an exercise in a book, from someone else's or one's own photograph, from life, or from the artist's imagination.

I encourage everyone to state the source of a work when posting. The comments that follow will be more appropriate and helpful, I think. :)

Tess

Strawberry Wine
04-29-2003, 08:27 AM
Hi Bre:

When you purchase an instructional book, the author has put it together for that reason and most often the copywrite states that the artist using the book may paint the subject for fun and or profit but no mass production.

When I was painting decorative art I often used an idea from a book I had purchased and painted it on a plaque or watering can or sawblade. etc. I often sold these pieces and the buyer was aware of the source.

However, to copy another artists work and then place it in a gallery or E-Bay for sale and pass it off as an original of your own is a copywrite infringement.

I do paint something that I have seen somewhere in a book or a magazine or from a calendar for practiceand for my own pleasure but I would not consider selling such a piece for profit.

By the way, this was a good question to post.


Gail:)

Sylvielu
04-29-2003, 09:33 AM
I have to agree with those who say that instructional material is meant to be copied. I don't see anything wrong with showing the results as long as he/she states it was from an instructional book/ video.

From what I've read most instructors encourage artists to study other artists (the ancient masters' beyond copyright infringement time) work and even try their style.

We learn from others mistakes!

karenjh
04-29-2003, 09:40 AM
IMHO Instructional books and video are for the artist to learn and should be stated so when posting here. However, I do not think that you are supposed to sell these works or claim them as your own. I guarantee you that if one painted a painting from a Claudia Nice book and then tried to sell it in a gallery whether or not I say its source, one could get in big trouble, get sued, etc.

Luzie
04-29-2003, 09:49 AM
As long as it's for practice and not for sale/show and the source is credited it's ok.

BUT I have seen many where the source was not credited, was never mentioned it came from an instructional book...and I have seen those even being offered for sale...AND I have seen people who had the nerve to try to enter a juried show with this... (of course no luck there, jurors are usually familiar with what's out there).
I think it's a shame and seriously question the ethics of those "artist". Well, If you'd ever try this in your community, the damage it will do to your reputation is serious.

Brelaina
04-29-2003, 10:09 AM
thank you Bill, Astur, Artmom, Manwhat, Yorky, Kansas Lady, TessP, Strawberrywine,Sylvielieu, Karenjh and Luzie !!(LOL) for all of your opinions - ineresting to read everyone's thoughts.

I too use instructional books and feel they are for this reason. Repainting the assignments have been a valuable learning experience for me.

I should clarify though, that the picture painted was not from a "How To " page , it was taken from a picture of a sample of one of the paintings in the artist's galllery. So , in that case I would worry that there could almost be some copyright issues especially if you claim it as your own in a show.

For some reason I am always conscious of copyright. I tend to paint alot from gardening magazine photos and worry that the painting maybe isn't different enough from the photo...thinking that the"copyright cop" will be watching:p

Anyway, definitely a thought for the day .. have a good one !

Bre

tessp
04-29-2003, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by Brelaina
I should clarify though, that the picture painted was not from a "How To " page , it was taken from a picture of a sample of one of the paintings in the artist's galllery. So , in that case I would worry that there could almost be some copyright issues especially if you claim it as your own in a show.

I didn't realize people were doing that. I'd call them on it if I ever did notice it, and make a comment like: "Hey, that looks just like the painting on page 24 of Painting Better Watercolors. Is it a copy?"

In my book, if a painting is a copy of someone else's work, it's not OK to imply otherwise... even if you don't try to sell it. And you *are* implying otherwise if you fail to credit the source.

Tess

Strawberry Wine
04-29-2003, 06:08 PM
Bre: I am wondering if you P.M. one of the moderators with your questions and let them decide if it is something that should be dealt with.

Just a thought.

Gail

Luzie
04-29-2003, 09:49 PM
Strawberry vine has a good point there, I also believe somewhere on the site (maybe when you submit a new thread) there is a paragraph that one should only submit original artwork, no copies unless source is credited or so...
Fraud should not be protected.

Brelaina
04-29-2003, 11:31 PM
Luzie - I'm laughing at your saying - If you can't face it - moon it ! - -

Not sure if feel like pursuing anything right now as I was really just bringing it up as a question of ethics . But I am definitely do feel that the artists might be eventually playing with fire. Not sure if I want to be the one to "break it to them gently ". But if anyone felt that I should it would be a good idea to pm a moderator Strawberrywine. And Tess- I totally agree with your point of view but am not quite straightforward enough to post that:rolleyes:
Thank you for your input - you three !

Bre