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Dcam
02-23-2012, 09:49 AM
I'll ask this of you Einion and also post this is Water Miscible oils.
There seems to be controversy on whether Aqua Duo paints by Holbein can be mixed with Acrylic paints.
The Chemists at Holbein say that it works fine.
There is an Archive from "Kyle" at Royal Talens WC 08-05-2011. He states otherwise. The theory posed by him is that the nature of the drying process in the paints could lead to disaster later on. "could".
I have the duos and though have not completed a full finished painting with a mix of duos and Golden Opens, the small studies I've done with this lovely buttery mix were a joy to paint. There must be thousands of artists out there that are doing this.
Any thoughts?

Derek

Dcam
02-23-2012, 11:18 AM
Here is an answer from DaveGhmn on oil forum:

Kyle may have a point, even though both media actually "dry" via polymerization. Acrylics polymerize within days, oils within months -- longer for impasto.

On the other hand, there has been a huge surge forward in the usability and life cycles of plastics since polymer chemists began concocting alloys and composites.

I'd ask Holbein what research their chemists have done. If it seems like rational experimentation, I'd go with their word.
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timelady
02-24-2012, 06:33 AM
My take on this is not about the water-misc but the actual content of the paint. Acrylics are still made of acrylic and this oil paint is still, when dry, made of oil (the molecules are simply altered so it doesn't repel water). The two will have different flexibilities and absorption rates when dry and environment will make them behave differently. Acrylic stays flexible and porous. Oil paint drys solid and inflexible and non-porous. I'm just not convinced that a combination, when dry, will be safe from cracking?

However I do think several of the brands now say they're mixable with acrylics. They're all so new it's probably hard to have much good research yet on the longevity of a mixture? It's actually a fascinating question on the modern chemistry and I'm curious about it!

Tina.

Dcam
02-24-2012, 09:00 AM
Hi there Tina: thanks for the input. I called Holbein yesterday and the tech there said that they have a large staff of chemists and they have researched the mix of the two: AQUA DUO water miscible oils do mix with acrylics and the drying time or states are no problem.

DUO Aqua Oil Colors and acrylic colors can be mixed.
Though the drying mechanism is no problem, the way of mixing is to be noted. Direct mixing is not the best way and will cause a "gumming up" literally. When you mix them, the appropriate way is to dilute DUO with a little amount of water.
A diluted DUO construct, a sort of tempera, makes a dispersed system. Acrylic colors are naturally in the tempera system. And although both are temperas of a different system, they don't harm each other, but accept each other.
Drying of acrylic colors on their own differs from the mixed system of DUO and acrylic color.
In its simple system, acrylic colors develop a film by losing water and a uniting of colloidal particles. It is an evaporative drying that help form the film. And as you may know, oil in DUO dries by oxidation. It is an entirely different mechanism from evaporation.
In the mixed system of DUO and acrylic color, dispersed oils get together and make a liquid system after losing water and acrylic colloidal particles DO NOT unite after losing water because they are dispersed in oil. The oil then dries in a form which includes the acrylic colloidal particles. It resembles so closely to a mixed tempera system of egg yolk and oil. Acrylic resin particles in the mixed system of DUO and acrylic color is NOT a film-making agent BUT a micro aggregates agent.
This is why the differences of drying time of acrylic color and that of DUO is NOT a problem to be concerned with.
and that was their email.

Derek

Dcam
02-29-2012, 10:19 AM
So....maybe you can use this info Einion?